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European Super League (again)

The moment they started moving games to Tuesday evenings for telly purposes and fuck the fans that had season tickets but couldn’t give three hours to see a game on a Tuesday night, they started down this route.
they have been playing midweek games since the fifties and the advent of floodlights. tuesday and wednesday night kick offs were a regular fixture up and down the divisions well before sky tv.
evening games are some of the best and most exciting games. i dont think you know what you are talking about.

monday night football in 1954,






tuesday night in '54,





wednesday night in '55,






empty seats all round lol.
 
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Whereas in the past films were haphazardly engineered to provide occasional engaged entertainment? Ha ha ha
If you've had Mourinho at your club for a year of course football can be boring.
im thinking of fast edited nonsense like that last star wars film - theres about 3 films crammed in there - all designed to overwhelm teh attention span of kids IMO. Im sure Disney have done research.

I actually think slower is more engaging, but for some reason I dont get on with modern films, TV series, much slower and longer, seem to do a better job at keeping my attention

A boring game of football is a treat to me - a chance to relax and switch off. Whereas an exciting match cant be beat for entertainment. Spurs run in the Champions League had me standing watching it in my own living room in many parts!!
 
Like others, I wonder what practical steps fans can take to undermine this plan, other than symbolic actions (withdrawing flags or Twitter posts) and boycotting club merchandise - especially as most fans don't financially support teams associated with the six corporations anyway. Can protests outside training grounds disrupt the smooth running of the club? Can targeting the sponsors and banks involved be a possibility? Is there anything we can learn from the 1970s protests against Apartheid teams? (I am not suggesting that this issue is as intense as Apartheid, but the activists then were successful in upsetting the sporting authorities who tried to profit by playing sport with an overtly racist regime)

I don't think a strategy of hoping some big voices will speak out, will work on its own. Klopp has already let many of these optimists down. Seems a lot of pressure to put on one or two people, anyway. They are more likely to be vocal against if there are mass participatory practical actions being undertaken.
Not my observation, but I've seen people elsewhere raising the MUFC anti-Glazer/Love United Hate Glazer campaign as a point of comparison - the formation of FCUM was one major outcome of that, but there were a lot of other actions that went into it as well, and that feels like maybe a more direct equivalent?
 
Not my observation, but I've seen people elsewhere raising the MUFC anti-Glazer/Love United Hate Glazer campaign as a point of comparison - the formation of FCUM was one major outcome of that, but there were a lot of other actions that went into it as well, and that feels like maybe a more direct equivalent?

Aye, this is a good example of fans from within one of the 6 corporate-clubs taking practical measures against it (but not, sadly, preventing Glazer) - but tThe proposed Super League damages football across the leagues and non-leagues, and so the fans of the 86 (+non-leagues) are pivotal here. Lincoln City fans setting up a rival FC City of Lincoln is not going to interfere with The Six's masterplan.
 
im thinking of fast edited nonsense like that last star wars film - theres about 3 films crammed in there - all designed to overwhelm teh attention span of kids IMO. Im sure Disney have done research.

I actually think slower is more engaging, but for some reason I dont get on with modern films, TV series, much slower and longer, seem to do a better job at keeping my attention

A boring game of football is a treat to me - a chance to relax and switch off. Whereas an exciting match cant be beat for entertainment. Spurs run in the Champions League had me standing watching it in my own living room in many parts!!
Your point about TV series is a good counter-example, though. Better Call Saul was a massive hit, and its pace was glacial.

But kids have always had short attention spans. Tom and Jerry, etc, are what, 10 minutes long? Meanwhile the Lord of the Rings films were popular among young people, I believe, and they're soooooo long and boring. I'm not sure I buy the idea that all that much has changed.
 
Your point about TV series is a good counter-example, though. Better Call Saul was a massive hit, and its pace was glacial.

But kids have always had short attention spans. Tom and Jerry, etc, are what, 10 minutes long? Meanwhile the Lord of the Rings films were popular among young people, I believe, and they're soooooo long and boring. I'm not sure I buy the idea that all that much has changed.
nothing has changed enough to change the length of a 90 minute football match thats for sure!
 
Once the novelty of playing big teams wears off (which it soon will, because what makes 'big' games is, at least in part, their rarity), I can't think of anything more depressing than an endless round of games between two self-appointed 'super teams', where there's no history of rivalry and no jeopardy of relegation, in a stadium that's full of tourists paying £100 a pop, with little away support.

And, at the same time, it devalues what's left, for everyone else!

Buy I guess we've just sleepwalked to the logical end point of allowing football to be utterly dominated by money. That clubs built by what are now known as 'legacy fans' (i.e. those with links to their past and community) can betray their history and their responsibility to the game to chase lucrative TV markets in China is a disgrace.

Whilst I'm very conscious that my enemy's enemy is not my friend*, I hope PL, FA, UEFA, and FIFA crush any club that goes ahead with this - applies the most brutal sanctions.

*corrupt and incompetent authorities running the game are what's got us to this point.
 
Did not spot this so it might have been posted.

The fans protesting about the ESL had a saxophonist playing 'Money, Money, Money' :D

Mané, Mané, Mané scoring the first goal slightly took the shine off it.
 
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I rarely watch a full match anymore, don't have the time to waste, internet has changed time perception I think, sped the world up, but no trends on concentration spans lead to the idea you change 90 minutes... Kids perceive time differently anyway. 90 minutes files by for me, especially now Jose has gone
Many computer games are 10s of hours long, so not sure that is a good comparison.
 
all it would take is one owner in one wicker man and the others would soon change their tune.
Some of the podcast pundits are suggesting that Man City and Chelsea have cold feet. That is based on rumour but from a couple of different sources.

Both those teams were invited into this rather than forming it. Also Porto claim to have been invited but refused.
 
Not my observation, but I've seen people elsewhere raising the MUFC anti-Glazer/Love United Hate Glazer campaign as a point of comparison - the formation of FCUM was one major outcome of that, but there were a lot of other actions that went into it as well, and that feels like maybe a more direct equivalent?
YOur post just reminded me about a talk I went to about 15 years ago about the protests against the Glazers. The only bit I can remember was a discussion of a strand along the lines of 'hate the club, love the team', which was ultimately about those who stayed as supporters, kept their season tickets but carried on protesting (things like the green and yellow scarves, but other stuff as well). It's worth noting those people lost, not just in the long term, but even by about 2007.

By the by, I'm not making some absolutist point that everybody should stop buying football (TV package or in person). It's just that there's no obvious route for internal pressure within the game. This does feel like a 'moment', with the strength of the outcry and all the, ahem, 'stakeholders' piping up about the breakaway. But then that's also the problem, you feel dragged into a unity of purpose which is really saying the prem league and uefa are the decent line in the sand we have to protect. I've noticed the likes of Gary Neville going on about grass roots and community football and in the same breath defending current salaries, the prem league and there being 'lots of money' in the game.
 
Some of the podcast pundits are suggesting that Man City and Chelsea have cold feet. That is based on rumour but from a couple of different sources.

Both those teams were invited into this rather than forming it. Also Porto claim to have been invited but refused.

If your aims in owning a football club are PR centred rather than financial this doesn't look like such a good move does it. So not surprising if they're not quite as keen, Man City in particular.
 
So it's looking like the FA can kill this by refusing to sponsor visas for any foreign players of the big six. Thank God for Brexit.

 
Thing is i actually really want them all to fuck off.

So do I. By the EPL and the 14 clubs not in the ESL will want to protect ‘the brand’ and the TV money so I suspect a grubby compromise that gives these fuckers an even bigger slice of the cake within a further revamped ECL (or at least the TV rights for it) is where we are heading.
 
So do I. By the EPL and the 14 clubs not in the ESL will want to protect ‘the brand’ and the TV money so I suspect a grubby compromise that gives these fuckers an even bigger slice of the cake within a further revamped ECL (or at least the TV rights for it) is where we are heading.
i think they have overstepped. not sure they will come out of this with any gains.
 
Thing is i actually really want them all to fuck off.
Yeah, this. I'm at a point where I just need a little push and I can stop supporting the cunts (Man U). It won't solve anything if they do fuck off, another set of owners will step up to be the new big 6 or whatever. Prem league are cunts, sky are cunts, uefa are cunts and we probably can't drag football back out of their grip. But let's not stop hating them.
 
So do I. By the EPL and the 14 clubs not in the ESL will want to protect ‘the brand’ and the TV money so I suspect a grubby compromise that gives these fuckers an even bigger slice of the cake within a further revamped ECL (or at least the TV rights for it) is where we are heading.
I don't actually think the clubs will be happy with just a bigger slice of the pie. JP Morgan and the American owners want a franchised exclusive league with guaranteed year on year profit. I don't think that's compatible with a revamped Champions League. It's shit or bust for the 12 now.
 
Sadly, this is the big concern for me.

There have been a lot of great posts about why we don't like this, why it goes against what we think a football club is, and what it should be, but... they simply don't care. They're simply working to a completely different set of priorities.

I also worry that any 'solution' to this might involve catering to them even more, deferring to various demands rather than saying "fucking no, you've stepped waaaay outside your area and now we're going to put you back, in no uncertain terms".
 
So do I. By the EPL and the 14 clubs not in the ESL will want to protect ‘the brand’ and the TV money so I suspect a grubby compromise that gives these fuckers an even bigger slice of the cake within a further revamped ECL (or at least the TV rights for it) is where we are heading.

Yeah, depressingly it is. And then doing it again in a few year's time.

Thing is, the current structure is fucked anyway - even without it getting worse. These clubs have already baked protection for themselves into competitions, it's already not an even battle. This is our chance to actually fix it.

The H list has returned from his semi-retirement and written this: The First Day Of The Rest Of Our Lives It's good, as always. It hits a number of nails on the head, not least that the clubs moaning now a) would have done exactly the same and b) sat by through numerous rule and comp changes without making a peep cos they thought it might ultimately benefit them.

Wage caps, drafts, rules on squads - whatever. It needs to be a fair competition, not just oh look West Ham are now the equivalent of Man City.
 
I don't actually think the clubs will be happy with just a bigger slice of the pie. JP Morgan and the American owners want a franchised exclusive league with guaranteed year on year profit. I don't think that's compatible with a revamped Champions League. It's shit or bust for the 12 now.

Agreed. But the American owners don’t hold all the cards. They’ve already failed to bounce the French and German teams. If Chelsea or City crumble, if FIFA refuse to recognise the league and if they face government and domestic league sanctions then a negotiated settlement looks the best they can achieve...
 
Agreed. But the American owners don’t hold all the cards. They’ve already failed to bounce the French and German teams. If Chelsea or City crumble, if FIFA refuse to recognise the league and if they face government and domestic league sanctions then a negotiated settlement looks the best they can achieve...
leaving aside this superleague, i don't think you can have anything like that without eg ajax or bayern munich or psg and so on. and frankly we do have a superleague already, it's the champion's league where there's people who are always in it and bit players like danish or swiss teams to make up the numbers.
 
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