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European Super League (again)

If you're the manager of one of those clubs then you've already had to come to terms with the financialisation of stuff like this to a large degree haven't you, this hasn't come out of the blue. It's not like last week's Liverpool were a totally different entity to this week's Liverpool. I mean I don't blame him for that - if they wanted to pay me a hundred grand a week then I'd do it - and if he does decide this is a step too far then fair play to him for that, but he's already swimming in a pretty murky pool.
 
If you're the manager of one of those clubs then you've already had to come to terms with the financialisation of stuff like this to a large degree haven't you, this hasn't come out of the blue. It's not like last week's Liverpool were a totally different entity to this week's Liverpool. I mean I don't blame him for that - if they wanted to pay me a hundred grand a week then I'd do it - and if he does decide this is a step too far then fair play to him for that, but he's already swimming in a pretty murky pool.
The move to a non-competitive set of exhibition matches, is a sea change from where we are now. Clubs may have financial advantage now, but the rules still allow they can be relegated. It isn't a closed shop. That's the difference.
 
If you're the manager of one of those clubs then you've already had to come to terms with the financialisation of stuff like this to a large degree haven't you, this hasn't come out of the blue. It's not like last week's Liverpool were a totally different entity to this week's Liverpool. I mean I don't blame him for that - if they wanted to pay me a hundred grand a week then I'd do it - and if he does decide this is a step too far then fair play to him for that, but he's already swimming in a pretty murky pool.

To some extent yes. But last week Liverpool were subject to qualification requirements for elite football. As of Sunday they’ve signalled their intent to remove the threat of competition and to form a cartel insulated from it. That’s a pretty fundamental move.
 
To some extent yes. But last week Liverpool were subject to qualification requirements for elite football. As of Sunday they’ve signalled their intent to remove the threat of competition and to form a cartel insulated from it. That’s a pretty fundamental move.

Yes of course. I'm not arguing it's not a major change or that it's all the same or anything like that. I do think though it's unlikely that there will be that much opposition from within clubs though because from they don't come from the same position as supporters and that goes for the likes of Klopp as much as anyone.
 
What is the point of these matches? I get the point of the League but what do these matches do for the teams? There is zero tension or expectation, so far. I am guessing that they are getting the umbrage out of the way in stages. First let everyone know what they intend and then let everyone know quite how much it will affect them. Something big is going to be removed from the current set up.
 
There's going to be a huge market for the games in the Far East, possibly USA? Makes total sense for the club owners

unfortunately.
 
How do you measure cultural weight? Juventus are just as famous as Liverpool FC around the world. The Beatles broke up in 1969, I don't think young people give much of a fuck about them, you're talking like a legacy fan here
I’m sure people in Beijing and New York are totally convinced by your arguments.
 
There's going to be a huge market for the games in the Far East, possibly USA? Makes total sense for the club owners

unfortunately.

Absolutely. I just wonder what the motivation is for anyone to watch these matches? They are simply a match. Nothing to play for. Nothing to achieve. They are quite weird, really. What is competitive sport if not for the chance of glory? Where is the glory in this? Where does chance/luck come into play?
 
Absolutely. I just wonder what the motivation is for anyone to watch these matches? They are simply a match. Nothing to play for. Nothing to achieve. They are quite weird, really. What is competitive sport if not for the chance of glory? Where is the glory in this? Where does chance/luck come into play?

A lot will be attracted just by the big names I'd have thought. Can imagine that "their team" not being demoted will be an advantage, no stress about it, Man Utd fans in China would just want to see them play against Messi and the like.
 
There's going to be a huge market for the games in the Far East, possibly USA? Makes total sense for the club owners

unfortunately.
That's the theory based on targeting the 'big game' audience. However most top clubs and leagues already have successful marketing strategies in those areas and there are existing TV rights for EPL and CL in those areas , in fact China is one of the EPLs biggest deals.
 
That's the theory based on targeting the 'big game' audience. However most top clubs and leagues already have successful marketing strategies in those areas and there are existing TV rights for EPL and CL in those areas , in fact China is one of the EPLs biggest deals.
These clubs want more of those spoils than they already get, guaranteed regardless of sporting performance
 
The Real Madrid president says the Super League is trying to save football as 'Young people are no longer interested in football ' The other line being bandied about by the fence sitting BBC sports is ' a younger generation, many of whom are attracted to players rather than clubs and don't tend to watch full matches'

The nearest source I can find is the ECA report Fans of the Future which attempts to profile and market segment fans , mainly for a digital future https://www.ecaeurope.com/media/4802/eca-fan-of-the-future-defining-modern-football-fandom.pdf

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I rarely watch a full match anymore, don't have the time to waste, internet has changed time perception I think, sped the world up, but no trends on concentration spans lead to the idea you change 90 minutes... Kids perceive time differently anyway. 90 minutes files by for me, especially now Jose has gone
 
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I rarely watch a full match anymore, don't have the time to waste, internet has changed time perception I think, sped the world up, but no trends on concentration spans lead to the idea you change 90 minutes... Kids perceive time differently anyway. 90 minutes files by for me, especially now Jose has gone
Funny how it applies to football but not films ?
 
Late to discussion (and probs talking through my arse!) but is the pandemic lack of crowds a factor in the timing of this?

ie. there can be no effective fan boycott without crowds and, when crowds are allowed back, there will be a pent-up demand for attendance that will likely trump any thoughts of withdrawing support?
 
Funny how it applies to football but not films ?
Films are now carefully engineered on providing constant engaged entertainment, particularly in the blockbuster arena.
Football can be boring by comparison.
Kids look at their phones whilst watching films. I relate to that too - I cant concentrate on films anymore for some reason
 
Late to discussion (and probs talking through my arse!) but is the pandemic lack of crowds a factor in the timing of this?

ie. there can be no effective fan boycott without crowds and, when crowds are allowed back, there will be a pent-up demand for attendance that will likely trump any thoughts of withdrawing support?
That's certainly the suggestion, both officially ("oooh, Covid has hit our poor revenue streams") and unofficially (basically, what you said).

Probably other stuff to the timing as well, of course (I think someone said the new Champions League format was published the same day, and so this was a "nope" to that?).
 
Late to discussion (and probs talking through my arse!) but is the pandemic lack of crowds a factor in the timing of this?

ie. there can be no effective fan boycott without crowds and, when crowds are allowed back, there will be a pent-up demand for attendance that will likely trump any thoughts of withdrawing support?

I guess it's also that they've had the chance to assess how TV audiences hold up without a crowd. Of course once permitted they'll have people back in but the question might be will a TV audience still tune in if the crowd is largely made up of daytrippers clutching their club shop bags rather than the fans who bring the atmosphere.
 
Like others, I wonder what practical steps fans can take to undermine this plan, other than symbolic actions (withdrawing flags or Twitter posts) and boycotting club merchandise - especially as most fans don't financially support teams associated with the six corporations anyway. Can protests outside training grounds disrupt the smooth running of the club? Can targeting the sponsors and banks involved be a possibility? Is there anything we can learn from the 1970s protests against Apartheid teams? (I am not suggesting that this issue is as intense as Apartheid, but the activists then were successful in upsetting the sporting authorities who tried to profit by playing sport with an overtly racist regime)

I don't think a strategy of hoping some big voices will speak out, will work on its own. Klopp has already let many of these optimists down. Seems a lot of pressure to put on one or two people, anyway. They are more likely to be vocal against if there are mass participatory practical actions being undertaken.
 
I guess it's also that they've had the chance to assess how TV audiences hold up without a crowd. Of course once permitted they'll have people back in but the question might be will a TV audience still tune in if the crowd is largely made up of daytrippers clutching their club shop bags rather than the fans who bring the atmosphere.
The clubs will probably continue to fake the atmosphere with canned crown noise. :facepalm:
 
I don't really get why they think an endless cycle of what are essentially exhibition matches is such a delightful proposition anyway. Especially when a fair few of them are going to be domestic teams playing each other. Oh look, Chelsea vs Liverpool. Again. Wow.

They could've at least proposed some sort of format change, like extra time multi-ball or cage soccer or something.
Yep, I think Man United have played Barcelona, without looking, about 5 times in the last 20 years. Big occasions are big because they don't happen every week.
 
Not just because I'm a Gills supporter...but this is good from Everton's board:

Everton is saddened and disappointed to see proposals of a breakaway league pushed forward by six clubs.

Six clubs acting entirely in their own interests.

Six clubs tarnishing the reputation of our league and the game.

Six clubs choosing to disrespect every other club with whom they sit around the Premier League table.

Six clubs taking for granted and even betraying the majority of football supporters across our country and beyond.

At this time of national and international crisis - and a defining period for our game - clubs should be working together collaboratively with the ideals of our game and its supporters uppermost.

Instead, these clubs have been secretly conspiring to break away from a football pyramid that has served them so well.

And in that Pyramid Everton salutes EVERY club, be it Leicester City, Accrington Stanley, Gillingham, Lincoln City, Morecambe, Southend United, Notts County and the rest who have, with their very being, enriched the lives of their supporters throughout the game's history. And vice versa.

The self-proclaimed Super Six appear intent on disenfranchising supporters across the game - including their own - by putting the very structure that underpins the game we love under threat.

The backlash is understandable and deserved – and has to be listened to.

This preposterous arrogance is not wanted anywhere in football outside of the clubs that have drafted this plan.

On behalf of everyone associated with Everton, we respectfully ask that the proposals are immediately withdrawn and that the private meetings and subversive practises that have brought our beautiful game to possibly its lowest ever position in terms of trust end now.

Finally we would ask the owners, chairmen, and Board members of the six clubs to remember the privileged position they hold – not only as custodians of their clubs but also custodians of the game. The responsibility they carry should be taken seriously.

We urge them all to consider what they wish their legacy to be.

Everton FC Board of Directors
 
Films are now carefully engineered on providing constant engaged entertainment, particularly in the blockbuster arena.
Football can be boring by comparison.
Kids look at their phones whilst watching films. I relate to that too - I cant concentrate on films anymore for some reason
Whereas in the past films were haphazardly engineered to provide occasional engaged entertainment? Ha ha ha
If you've had Mourinho at your club for a year of course football can be boring.
 
For a lot of people, football is the greatest sense of community and meaning they experience regularly in their lives. A lot of people have more interaction with their club than other institutions. If it is the lightning rod through which people start thinking about how their lives are blighted by current economic conditions and are motivated to fight that, it shouldn't be belittled because other institutions are damaged too.

Great post. In a lot of towns the football team is the only thing left that people feel a connection to and some form of ‘ownership’ of. The work that the places grew up around has gone, along with the civil organisations that emerged from it. The pubs are closing. The town centre is full of empty shops etc. The football club is the last remaining symbol from which they can draw identity and some meaning from.
 
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