European Super League (again)

[Smokeandsteam]

Football has been eating itself for years and it needs to die in its current form. If this hastens that death, I’m all for it. If you run a sport on the basis of making as much profit out of it as possible — to the exclusion of all other considerations — you can’t complain when people that have come in to do exactly that make some decisions you don’t like. You brought them in to do exactly this. Oh, has the scorpion stung you, frog? The moment they started moving games to Tuesday evenings for telly purposes and fuck the fans that had season tickets but couldn’t give three hours to see a game on a Tuesday night, they started down this route.

Agreed. But the reaction over the last 48 hours has been astonishing and fascinating.

The entire population is watching and openly condemning big capital as it attempts to vaporise important cultural institutions and traditions in the name of profit. What’s truly odd is that some of those doing some of the condemning are those who normally actively collude when capital does this in other spheres.

 

[Johnny Doe]

It's about global fanbase, with Spurs possibly sneaking in for to make a 2/3 vote to expel them from the EPL impossible

Top 10 Football Clubs With Most Fans in The World in 2022

List of top 10 football clubs with most fans in the world. The top 10 most popular football clubs with the most fans in England, Asia and worldwide.

thefootballlovers.com

Actually my maths are wrong - the 14 remainers could vote them out

 

[two sheds]

2/3? Upthread is said 75%

 

[kabbes]

Agreed. But the reaction over the last 48 hours has been astonishing and fascinating.

The entire population is watching and openly condemning big capital as it attempts to vaporise important cultural institutions and traditions in the name of profit. What’s truly odd is that some of those doing some of the condemning are those who normally actively collude when capital does this in other spheres.

Right, as if football is more important than a functional nationalised health or education system. This is where the line is drawn, apparently. I roll my eyes to see bigger organised protests for this than for the systematic destruction of institutions of genuine importance.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Agreed. But the reaction over the last 48 hours has been astonishing and fascinating.

The entire population is watching and openly condemning big capital as it attempts to vaporise important cultural institutions and traditions in the name of profit. What’s truly odd is that some of those doing some of the condemning are those who normally actively collude when capital does this in other spheres.

I guess, as an Arsenal season ticket holder, I've colluded to some extent to path big business has dragged football along. But until now, there has still been competition, it is still sport. Despite some clubs financial advantages, the rules allow that anyone can win and anyone can lose. Leicester won the league, big clubs could get relegated. This is a move to eliminate that.

 

[Johnny Doe]

2/3? Upthread is said 75%

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Right, as if football is more important than a functional nationalised health or education system. This is where the line is drawn, apparently. I roll my eyes to see bigger organised protests for this than for the systematic destruction of institutions of genuine importance.

Aye, the fact that millions can see, understand and resist the motives of capital in football but are unable to in other important spheres of social and economic life is baffling (and if we are being honest, frustrating). Plus those leading the fight in the media aren’t doing so to democratise the game and give it back to the fans. But still, listening to some of the reaction and ideas this is producing is genuinely heartening.

 

[Flavour]

It’s about cities as much as teams. London, Manchester, Liverpool, Madrid, Barcelona, Milan. Er, and Turin.

Turin is not the smallest or least economically powerful in that group. Liverpool is.

 

[tommers]

View attachment 264101

Kicking a club out is 3/4. Rule changes are 14.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I guess, as an Arsenal season ticket holder, I've colluded to some extent to path big business has dragged football along. But until now, there has still been competition, it is still sport. Despite some clubs financial advantages, the rules allow that anyone can win and anyone can lose. Leicester won the league, big clubs could get relegated. This is a move to eliminate that.

The proposed creation of a cartel and the elimination of competition (no matter how skewed by money) is (rightfully) being resisted especially by the supporters of the clubs involved. But, if the outcome of this is merely a stitch up between the ESL clubs with UEFA, the EPL and others that restores that whilst further embedding the current model then meh...but that is, I think, the most likely scenario.

 

[kabbes]

Turin is not the smallest or least economically powerful in that group. Liverpool is.

It doesn’t have the cultural weight, though.

 

[tommers]

Right, as if football is more important than a functional nationalised health or education system. This is where the line is drawn, apparently. I roll my eyes to see bigger organised protests for this than for the systematic destruction of institutions of genuine importance.

You don't think football is important to people?? Why on earth do you think it's been able to carry on when everything else has stopped?


If they proposed something that destroyed the NHS at a stroke then you would see protests that dwarfed this, which is why they are doing it piecemeal.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Kicking a club out is 3/4. Rule changes are 14.

Ah. ok

 

[kabbes]

You don't think football is important to people?? Why on earth do you think it's been able to carry on when everything else has stopped?


If they proposed something that destroyed the NHS at a stroke then you would see protests that dwarfed this, which is why they are doing it piecemeal.

Clearly, football is important to people. Grown men, who indeed find it more important than anything else.

 

[skyscraper101]

I don't really get why they think an endless cycle of what are essentially exhibition matches is such a delightful proposition anyway. Especially when a fair few of them are going to be domestic teams playing each other. Oh look, Chelsea vs Liverpool. Again. Wow.

They could've at least proposed some sort of format change, like extra time multi-ball or cage soccer or something.

 

[Plumdaff]

For a lot of people, football is the greatest sense of community and meaning they experience regularly in their lives. A lot of people have more interaction with their club than other institutions. If it is the lightning rod through which people start thinking about how their lives are blighted by current economic conditions and are motivated to fight that, it shouldn't be belittled because other institutions are damaged too.

 

[kabbes]

First football, tomorrow the world.

 

[Johnny Doe]

I don't really get why they think an endless cycle of what are essentially exhibition matches is such a delightful proposition anyway. Especially when a fair few of them are going to be domestic teams playing each other. Oh look, Chelsea vs Liverpool. Again. Wow.

They could've at least proposed some sort of format change, like extra time multi-ball or cage soccer or something.

It's shit to anyone who understands sport. But this is marketed for global followers of some big brands.

I wonder about grounds....Arsenal's is prime real estate...we will see the Highbury Red Guns relocating?

 

[strung out]

Kicking a club out is 3/4. Rule changes are 14.

Of course, the remaining 14 clubs could all resign en masse from the Premier League and rejoin the football league, de facto expelling the big 6 from English football.

One can dream...

 

[Flavour]

It doesn’t have the cultural weight, though.

How do you measure cultural weight? Juventus are just as famous as Liverpool FC around the world. The Beatles broke up in 1969, I don't think young people give much of a fuck about them, you're talking like a legacy fan here

 

[The39thStep]

Liverpool were always going to. Whole thing is clearly driven by the US owned clubs. Most circumspect were Chelsea and MCFC apparently

Anyway, players starting to come out against, which of course they will be given UEFA's unequivocal stance on international bans. Owners may not care about that but players do.

Next stage - union statements citing something like change in T&Cs of employment. Attack them on all fronts, players, associations, leagues, the lot. Nobody can afford to back down here.

And yep, if they can find a way to do it, throw the fuckers out. No mercy.

Chelsea and City were classed in the unconvincing 'having doubts but don't want to be left behind' group

 

[The Octagon]

Gary 'Man of the People' Neville speaks for us being the payroll of Sky which excludes millions of fans from the sport.

Well said Klopp

Neville's been spot on about this, Klopp completely misinterpreted his comments and had an unnecessary pop.

Coupled with his whining about the Leeds fans and shirts, I was really disappointed in him last night tbh.

 

[1927]

Neville's been spot on about this, Klopp completely misinterpreted his comments and had an unnecessary pop.

Coupled with his whining about the Leeds fans and shirts, I was really disappointed in him last night tbh.

I see Klopp has said he won’t resign but will try and change from within club, lost all respect for him.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Chelsea and City were classed in the unconvincing 'having doubts but don't want to be left behind' group

Chelsea and City have different funding models. Their owners effectively bankroll the clubs. Liverpool and Manchester United (along with Barcelona and Madrid) have leveraged debt of around £1Bn each as their owners don’t put their own money in. So it’s more that the latter teams have to form a cartel to preserve the model and/or stave of financial collapse - and protect their position from football - whereas the former two don’t

 

[The39thStep]

The Real Madrid president says the Super League is trying to save football as 'Young people are no longer interested in football ' The other line being bandied about by the fence sitting BBC sports is ' a younger generation, many of whom are attracted to players rather than clubs and don't tend to watch full matches'

The nearest source I can find is the ECA report Fans of the Future which attempts to profile and market segment fans , mainly for a digital future https://www.ecaeurope.com/media/4802/eca-fan-of-the-future-defining-modern-football-fandom.pdf

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Neville's been spot on about this, Klopp completely misinterpreted his comments and had an unnecessary pop.

Coupled with his whining about the Leeds fans and shirts, I was really disappointed in him last night tbh.

Klopp's in a difficult spot tbf. In his beliefs generally, he's way more radical than the likes of Neville. He's on record as being against a SL, which is good in the sense that he doesn't have to say it again but can refer people to his previous comments. But I'm not sure what the players or managers of the clubs involved can do here. If Klopp were Leeds manager, I don't doubt he'd be saying stuff like Bielsa right now. But he's not. He'll have clauses in his contract that will restrict what he can say. If Klopp really starts speaking out, that's probably a sign that he's decided to quit.

 

[The39thStep]

I see Klopp has said he won’t resign but will try and change from within club, lost all respect for him.

Very unfair to single out one coach on not resigning. If there is to be any resistance it needs to be a collective effort built around the more confident/radical players and coaches linking up with supporters.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Very unfair to single out one coach on not resigning. If there is to be any resistance it needs to be a collective effort built around the more confident/radical players and coaches linking up with supporters.

Yeah, and Klopp himself hinted at that when talking about his job - responsible for the team and, maybe a bit, for the relationship between the club and the supporters. That interview above is quite astute really. It doesn't sound like he's decided to quit just yet, but he's positioned himself very much as the employee, the lover of the team, the players, the supporters, the club and its traditions.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Very unfair to single out one coach on not resigning. If there is to be any resistance it needs to be a collective effort built around the more confident/radical players and coaches linking up with supporters.

I don't think coaches can save it. Only the superstar players have the power. And they are going to keep taking the money.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Very unfair to single out one coach on not resigning. If there is to be any resistance it needs to be a collective effort built around the more confident/radical players and coaches linking up with supporters.

Agreed. But Klopps defence of the owners and his bizarre attack on supporters groups for demanding their banners be removed/protests was piss poor.