Ethnic make up of festival goers

[ska invita]

Following chat in the galstonbury thread about how "white" the make up of punters is...its not just Glastonbury of course.
Deserves its own thread i think...ive got some thoughts but cant post too much right now
Meanwhile to kick off:

If you think as much about Festival history generally (and Glastonbury history in particular!) as I do, and also if you read lots, like me, about the general UK counter-culture of the sixties to nineties (especially), then way-back-when, it was probably near-inevitable! that there would be fewer Black acts and festival-goers ...

"near inevitable" because....?

Although I liked your post I'm not sure the problem lies with the choice of bands and artists, I think the organisers do make efforts to be inclusive.

what kind of efforts?

 

[Pickman's model]

Following chat in the galstonbury thread about how "white" the make up of punters is...its not just Glastonbury of course.
Deserves its own thread i think...ive got some thoughts but cant post too much right now
Meanwhile to kick off:

"near inevitable" because....?


what kind of efforts?

I wonder how many black musicians joined jimi Hendrix on the bill at the Isle of Wight festival in 1971. E2a quite a few, going some way to disproving part of William of Walworth's point

 

[Supine]

I think if you live in a big multicultural city the crowd at Glastonbury might seem very very white. The U.K. as a whole though is approx 85% white (as self identified in the 2021 census) so things may not be as skewed as it might seem. I’m not convinced there is a problem at all tbh.

Also, there are other concerts where the makeup is very different.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think if you live in a big multicultural city the crowd at Glastonbury might seem very very white. The U.K. as a whole though is approx 85% white (as self identified in the 2021 census) so things may not be as skewed as it might seem. I’m not convinced there is a problem at all tbh.

Also, there are other concerts where the makeup is very different.

and festivals too presumably

 

[izz]

Following chat in the galstonbury thread about how "white" the make up of punters is...its not just Glastonbury of course.
Deserves its own thread i think...ive got some thoughts but cant post too much right now
Meanwhile to kick off:

"near inevitable" because....?


what kind of efforts?

They're was an interview with Emily Eavis on the local news site a few years ago, she said they do try to get as diverse a lineup as possible and I think if you go back and compare lineups now with those of, say ten years ago you might see improvements. I'm not for one second saying this is enough of course

 

[A380]

Is it just race or is there a class element too? Given the price of the larger festivals is there a higher proportion of middle class ( and the children of the middle classes) than the demographics of the general population? Would that go some way to explaining the white/BME split? n.b. These aren’t rhetorical questions, I don’t know as I’m not a big festival goer.

 

[izz]

I do certainly think there's a class element
now A380 but I don't think that was the case in the early days when it was all hippies I guess it's gentrification

 

[Riklet]

I thought Glasto was much less white in 2019 than festivals in general 10 years before.

Then again I didnt go round inspecting everyone for their ethnic and national backgrounds and doing crazy maths about underrepresentation based on my own small experience (while wasted).

There is a class element for sure and maybe you see more young middle class BAME festival goers. But how can you tell frankly?

 

[ska invita]

Is it just race or is there a class element too? Given the price of the larger festivals is there a higher proportion of middle class ( and the children of the middle classes) than the demographics of the general population? Would that go some way to explaining the white/BME split? n.b. These aren’t rhetorical questions, I don’t know as I’m not a big festival goer.

100% yes....i never went to festivals when younger because either/and 1. it wasnt my kind of music and 2. it was expensive. That basically remains the case. so as income relates to class then yes.

 

[Cat Fan]

Is it because people compare with the US? (which is more racially diverse especially at under 30 level?) I don't think there's such an issue at festivals. Skiing/snowboarding on the other hand...! That could probably benefit from some more diversity

 

[Ranbay]

only white people are stupid enough to get up at 08:30 on a Sunday in October with 3 laptops 2 PC's 3 phones and constantly try and get tickets?

 

[Numbers]

I've found the Love Supreme Jazz Festival is quite diverse.

 

[ska invita]

there are so many factors at work here....we still have a lot of ethnic separation across all parts of cultural and social life in the UK...

BTW --->>

England wiki (not UK) has this ethnicity breakdown based on 2011 Census

• 85.4% White
• 7.8% Asian
• 3.5% Black
• 2.3% Mixed
• 1.0% Other

UK is

• 87.1% White[c][d]
• 7.0% Asian
• 3.0% Black
• 2.0% Mixed
• 0.9% Other

 

[High Voltage]

BAME have got more common sense than to want to stand in the middle of a field, up to their ankles in "mud" in the pissing down rain

 

[Ranbay]

only white people are stupid enough to get up at 08:30 on a Sunday in October with 3 laptops 2 PC's 3 phones and constantly try and get tickets?

And pay almost £250 to camp in a field.

 

[Elpenor]

Only festival I’ve been to in the last 10 years is Lovebox and while I was mostly off my face on MDMA it felt like the audience reflected East London

 

[ska invita]

Only festival I’ve been to in the last 10 years is Lovebox and while I was mostly off my face on MDMA it felt like the audience reflected East London

i think location is important..... Notting Hill Carnival and Hackney One (ridely road) are not just free but in the community...ive heard the Victoria Park things (forget the name, but ticketed) are fairly mixed. There was a soudnsytem trail in Deptford the other month, and that wasnt too bad at all. As recent PoC countryside hiking campaigners have been highlighting the countryside is not considered a welcoming place to a lot of PoC.

 

[ska invita]

I do like the idea of this....I wonder how it's working in practice

‘Two worlds brought together’: Notting Hill carnival shakes up Glastonbury

Festival organiser Emily Eavis says it’s a ‘dream’ to unite two of the UK’s biggest cultural events for the first time

www.theguardian.com

 

[danny la rouge]

100% yes....i never went to festivals when younger because either/and 1. it wasnt my kind of music and 2. it was expensive.

For me, this.

And now that I’m old and infirm, the discomfort completely rules it out. I require seating, and a bed. And I have prostate problems and IBS. Portaloos can get to fuck.

So, no. Fill your boots - often literally - but not for me.

 

[Funky_monks]

I've found the Love Supreme Jazz Festival is quite diverse.

Whereas Cheltenham Jazz festival, on the other hand.......

 

[NoXion]

there are so many factors at work here....we still have a lot of ethnic separation across all parts of cultural and social life in the UK...

BTW --->>

England wiki (not UK) has this ethnicity breakdown based on 2011 Census

• 85.4% White
• 7.8% Asian
• 3.5% Black
• 2.3% Mixed
• 1.0% Other

UK is

• 87.1% White[c][d]
• 7.0% Asian
• 3.0% Black
• 2.0% Mixed
• 0.9% Other

85% or more of the UK is white. I'd say that goes a long way to explaining things. Every time I've left one of the most ethnically diverse towns in the UK that is my home, or one of the major cities, it's always a reminder of that.

 

[Elpenor]

For me, this.

And now that I’m old and infirm, the discomfort completely rules it out. I require seating, and a bed. And I have prostate problems and IBS. Portaloos can get to fuck.

So, no. Fill your boots - often literally - but not for me.

I feel that way about most socialising

 

[8ball]

there are so many factors at work here....we still have a lot of ethnic separation across all parts of cultural and social life in the UK...

BTW --->>

England wiki (not UK) has this ethnicity breakdown based on 2011 Census

• 85.4% White
• 7.8% Asian
• 3.5% Black
• 2.3% Mixed
• 1.0% Other

UK is

• 87.1% White[c][d]
• 7.0% Asian
• 3.0% Black
• 2.0% Mixed
• 0.9% Other

Good breakdown to see. I’ve been to festivals where there has been a decent representation of Asian people (including a couple of folk festivals, which surprised me a little, but also Green Man).

Some festivals I’ve have been dominated by what you could call “white music” eg. End Of The Road, which has a bit of an Arctic Circle vibe, so not that surprising that things would be a little skewed.

In terms of the acts playing, minorities always seem to have been fairly well represented across the board.

I wonder about people saying the Glastonbury crowd looks very white when about 90% of the country looks fairly white if you’re scanning a large group.

 

[Raheem]

Looking at past Glastonbury lineups (on Wikipedia), I have to say I find it hard to see it as shockingly white, given that it is, at the end of the day, a rock festival.

In the 70s, it was almost entirely white (afaict Gilberto Gil is the only exception in the whole decade). But from 1981, there seems to be a sudden change in attitude, and you get the impression of a concerted effort to include non-white artists. They did recycle certain bands like Aswad and Black Uhuru year after year, but I think that just shows that they were taking things seriously, because it was probably either that or give up.

This doesn't really seem to have stopped being how they do things since, except in 90s there's the advent of the jazz stage ("jazz" being a bit of a euphemism), so things get a bit ghettoised. I guess there was commercial pressure to showcase indie and then Britpop acts.

A shame that this is also when Glastonbury started being televised, but generally not the jazz stage, so it's not been showing its full diversity to its biggest audience.

All the same, I think it's hard to look at any Glastonbury in the last 40 years and be scandalised by the lack of diversity.

 

[mx wcfc]

I get the point the OP makes. At Bearded there were probably more BAME performers than festival goers. (certainly more BAME people working security and the bars/food than attendees.)

The thing that struck me most though was Bob Vylan's set. Black band, singing songs about black experience and resistance in England. One BAME person in the mosh pit. Brilliant, of course that the band are supported by white people. Plenty of football fans in there too. (maybe it was just one group of West Brom fans and a Wolves fan winding eachother up)

Glastonwick was the same. A lot smaller but a full on lefty festival. BAME artists on stage. Don't think I remember a single non-white attendee.

We regularly go to Wickham festival - it's local. It's "a nice middle class festival" in a rural area. Last year we watched Dhol Foundation - everyone loved them, but I'm pretty sure mrs mx was the only Indian in the tent.

But then, mrs mx insists on going home every night for her own bed, and a shower in the morning.


Maybe it is just down to white people being the only ones daft enough to paddle through mud, shit in a portaloo, and sleep on a blow up bed in a tent.

 

[ska invita]

A shame that this is also when Glastonbury started being televised, but generally not the jazz stage, so it's not been showing its full diversity to its biggest audience.

tbh tv coverage makes glastonbury look like a middle of the road pop festival with a strong BBC vibe running through it for atmosphere - doesnt really matter who is on stage it looks pretty shit on telly unless you are after that sort of thing


As an aside and going back to the location thing, one of the things i like about bangface is theres a strong mix of scottish - irish - northern punters + in the past Belgians (less Belgians last time i went) ... the reason for this is the site being in Southport (north of liverpool)

 

[xenon]

I do certainly think there's a class element
now A380 but I don't think that was the case in the early days when it was all hippies I guess it's gentrification

Hippies are middle-class for the most part.

 

[Griff]

Never had any appeal at all, which is odd as going to gigs from an early age really was a thing.

Too poncy, too middle-class? Dunno!

 

[8ball]

Never had any appeal at all, which is odd as going to gigs from an early age really was a thing.

Too poncy, too middle-class? Dunno!

It was never something on my radar as something I’d want to do, then a few mates suggested going. Had a great time.

This was 23 years ago.

Horses for courses etc.

 

[Griff]

Not knocking it at all it's just wasn't an East London thing growing up and yeah, not on anybody's radar really. I'm talking early '80s onwards.
Even though we'd be at school and go to the 100 Club, Lyceum or Marquee every week to see bands.