Electrical help - found a possibly live connection to the main circuit in our ceiling

[Buddy Bradley]

The previous owners had an over-bed storage cabinet which I've just torn down, but hidden behind it was a ceiling light fitting that the over-bed storage was wired into (to provide reading lights over the bed).

I was just going to cut the power, remove all the wires, and screw on a blank plastic ceiling cover, but the wife is worried that if it's live it could be a fire hazard.

Do I need to do anything to make it safe(r)? (Preferably that doesn't involve calling an electrician out.)

 

[danski]

Providing the cables are terminated into proper connectors/terminals then it should be ok although a picture would be helpful to see what you’re dealing with.

 

[2hats]

Terminate on junction box, blocks, cap or insulate them.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Providing the cables are terminated into proper connectors/terminals then it should be ok although a picture would be helpful to see what your dealing with.

Yeah, the ceiling thing has proper terminals for the wires coming down from the roof cavity.

 

[danski]

Yeah, should be ok. Check they’re tight, put the lid on

 

[High Voltage]

Where's dessiato when you need him

 

[sparkybird]

All good advice above. It sounds like a standard ceiling rose, so just pop the cover on. Was there a switch for it??
SB
(Electrician)

 

[dessiato]

Where's dessiato when you need him

I'm here.

I'd blank it off. Turn off that circuit first, just to be safe.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

All good advice above. It sounds like a standard ceiling rose, so just pop the cover on. Was there a switch for it??

The storage unit had a switch (which didn't work), so I'm not sure whether or not the room switch also switched the second ceiling rose.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

I'd blank it off. Turn off that circuit first, just to be safe.

Okay. So I went to do this, but when I took the cover off I found it had four wires - blue, red, yellow, and yellow/green. The blank I have only has 3 connectors - which ones should I combine? I found some information that says a yellow wire might be a switched-live to an extractor fan, but as we don't have a fan I have no idea what it's for...

Edit: I'm assuming that the loop in the room goes switch -> new dead ceiling rose -> current light fitting, because when I tried just connecting the live/neutral/earth wires to the blank, the main light stopped working.

 

[dessiato]

I'd check carefully, but I'd not combine the red and blue with anything.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

I'd check carefully, but I'd not combine the red and blue with anything.

Do blank ceiling roses need the earth connected to anything? I don't want to combine the yellow with earth in case it is another live.

Edit: Alternatively, if one of them is sleeved to indicate it's a switched-live, should that be combined with the regular live?

 

[dessiato]

Do blank ceiling roses need the earth connected to anything? I don't want to combine the yellow with earth in case it is another live.

Edit: Alternatively, if one of them is sleeved to indicate it's a switched-live, should that be combined with the regular live?

I'm not a reliable enough person here. You need someone with a better understanding. I don't want to give advice that might be wrong.

Someone with a greater understanding will be along soon.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

This wiring is super-weird - I just went back for another look, and it's got:

Red
Blue with red sleeve
Yellow with red sleeve
Yellow/green

dessiato yeah no worries, I think it's just an old house with bodged wiring.

 

[danski]

There are many reasons, all legit, it could be like that but without being there it's too difficult to tell.
The red sleeving on the yellow and blue is to indicate that they are being used as live conductors but then what is being used for the neutral?

What the actual set up is is impossible to tell. Picture might help but you'd need to investigate nearby switches and nearby lights and do continuity tests to identify what's doing what.

 

[dessiato]

This wiring is super-weird - I just went back for another look, and it's got:

Red
Blue with red sleeve
Yellow with red sleeve
Yellow/green

dessiato yeah no worries, I think it's just an old house with bodged wiring.

Even I'd not touch that and I have a cavalier attitude to some of these things.

 

[sparkybird]

Can you post up a picture and I'll try and advise. Leave the cables as they were for the minute. Also can you see what colour the cables are at the switch? There probably is a live one in there too.
Can you remember how the old bedside lights were switched on and off?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

The red sleeving on the yellow and blue is to indicate that they are being used as live conductors so at least that bit has been done properly apart form which is the neutral?

What the actual set up is is impossible to tell. Picture might help but you'd need to investigate nearby switches and nearby lights and do continuity tests to identify what's doing what.

Picture won't show you anything beyond what I've described really. Like I said, when I disconnected it, the other light in the room stopped working, so it's obviously part of a loop.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Can you post up a picture and I'll try and advise. Leave the cables as they were for the minute. Also can you see what colour the cables are at the switch? There probably is a live one in there too.

Okay, so this is the old switch that was mounted on the bedside storage unit.



The other end (that was wired into the ceiling) has red, blue, yellow and an unsheathed (presumably earth) wire.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Just pulled the wall switch as well to see what that had - red, blue (red jacket), black (red jacket), yellow (red jacket), earth.

 

[sparkybird]

There's no neutral at that switch but there will be one at the old lighting point. A picture of it with the wires as they were would help me identify which is permanent live, which switched live and which is neutral.
Don't assume that just because the cable's are the same colour they are the same cables....
It's possible there is a junction box (place where cables are joined) somewhere.
Was it possible to switch the old light on/off from more than one switch?

 

[sparkybird]

Just pulled the wall switch as well to see what that had - red, blue (red jacket), black (red jacket), yellow (red jacket), earth.

That's how a two way switch is wired. Can you turn the light off from another switch?

 

[Saul Goodman]

That's how a two way switch is wired. Can you turn the light off from another switch?

Exactly this. It's a 2 way switch setup.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Was it possible to switch the old light on/off from more than one switch?

No, it never actually worked since we've been in the house, so I don't know whether it ever worked off the wall switch as well.

 

[sparkybird]

Ah ok. It's going to be difficult to advise without being able to test for live cables.
A picture of the cables as they were in the old light fitting would help a bit.
Failing that, can you just fit the cover and leave it and the switch in place?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of the cable arrangement in the old ceiling rose before I disconnected it. Think I'll have to get a local electrician to come round to check it over with a meter to figure out the right arrangement of wires. Thanks anyway for the advice.

 

[weltweit]

I was once beaten by a ceiling rose wiring, I had to call an electrician.

// the shame of it

 

[sparkybird]

Ah well, we tried! Having made that mistake once, I always take a picture now before I disconnect anything complicated!
I'm sure it'll be a straightforward job for your sparks
Lighting wiring is more complicated than it appears and I've seen many DIY attempts that went wrong! No shame, keeps me in work!