DSEI arms fair, September 6th-17th

[hitmouse]

It's getting near that time of year again:

STOP DSEI 2021 - Stop the Arms Fair

Monday 6 September 2021 - Friday 17 September 2021 @ All day - Get ready to join in the resistance to DSEI 2021. Every two years, the global arms trade comes to London. DSEI, one of the world's largest arms fairs, returns to London's Docklands this September. This is where those who profit from...

www.stopthearmsfair.org.uk

Events - Stop the Arms Fair

CONTENTS

www.stopthearmsfair.org.uk

Also another arms fair going off in Liverpool on September 11th:

Demo against the AOC Liverpool Electronic Arms Fair - Stop the Arms Fair

Saturday 11 September 2021 @ 11:30 - The AOC Europe 2021 arms fair is scheduled to take place at the council-owned ACC Exhibition Centre in Liverpool. At the fair, arms companies - whose weapons have been used to target civilian populations around the world - are due to set up shop to market...

www.stopthearmsfair.org.uk

 

[kebabking]

I'll wave to the soap dodgers as I go in. I might even sign a placcard for you if you're really lucky...

 

[teqniq]

Fast forward to 2023 and the Met are fishing for info on potential numbers of protestors at this year's event:

Police gathered information on protesters ahead of arms fair

Metropolitan Police pressured hosts to confirm the size of a ‘know your rights’ training event in east London

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[platinumsage]

Have any previous DSEI arms fair protesters had their minds changed by Ukraine I wonder?

 

[teqniq]

Having never protested at it, I have absolutely no idea. But the main issue with DSEI for me at least is this:



Ukraine on the other hand save for small arms and ant-tank weaponry is largely being supplied, particularly by the US with out-of-date (to the us military at least) weaponry which are no longer used or supplied to their own forces.

 

[platinumsage]

OK, the one time I went the protest seemed to be about no arms full stop, without any caveats about oppressive regimes.

 

[teqniq]

There's going to be positions right across the spectrum, the above is my personal one as illustrated by the article. My position re: Ukraine is that they should be empowered to defend themselves and take back what is theirs. the Saudis and suchlike? Fuck 'em. Unfortunately though they are a cash cow for the likes of BAE Systems.

 

[LDC]

Have any previous DSEI arms fair protesters had their minds changed by Ukraine I wonder?

I think it's fair to say that like the wider left I suspect people have a variety of opinions, whether that's fundamentally shifted their politics rather than it being this situation specific I don't know.

I did hear there's been some ripples of dissent within CND who have co-operated with Stop The War (especially Kate Hudson it seems) lots over Ukraine, with some people being quite unhappy with that and have tried to push CND to have a slightly different approach.

She's happy to uncritically share a platform with these bunch of freaks.

 

[Pickman's model]

Having never protested at it, I have absolutely no idea. But the main issue with DSEI for me at least is this:

View attachment 389859

Ukraine on the other hand save for small arms and ant-tank weaponry is largely being supplied, particularly by the US with out-of-date (to the us military at least) weaponry which are no longer used or supplied to their own forces.

I'll be kind and assume you're forgetting stuff like the himars. From July 2022 Fact Sheet on U.S. Security Assistance to Ukraine from July 2023 How Much Aid Has the U.S. Sent Ukraine? Here Are Six Charts. how do you think it'll play should the US, UK and Australia go to war with China and the Americans are out of the materiel they need to fight the conflict because it's all been handed to kyiv? It's been pointed put loads of times that the US is pursuing its own interests. In the light of this it is really peculiar to suggest the Americans should do for Ukraine what it wouldn't do for a range of other countries. And even worse when you say stuff about it's all shit stuff when the actualité is rather different. Himars, for example. Is that shit? Did you not notice the artillery they were given? The night vision equipment, which I doubt is widely shared among Russian troops? The abrams tanks?

 

[teqniq]

Ok so some but not all of the stuff is new., but I still think it's fair to say the majority is older stuff. Also they've refused to give them longer range missile systems

in the light of this it is really peculiar to suggest the Americans should do for Ukraine what it wouldn't do for a range of other countries

Where have I suggested that?

Abrams tanks have yet to be delivered:

Ukraine to receive first 10 Abrams tanks in September

The 10 US-made Abrams tanks are expected to arrive in Ukraine in mid-September.

www.pravda.com.ua

 

[tim]

Have any previous DSEI arms fair protesters had their minds changed by Ukraine I wonder?

Yes, I will now go and throw rose petals over the heads of the merchants of death and the brutes they enable to slaughter more effectively.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ok so some but not all of the stuff is new., but I still think it's fair to say the majority is older stuff. Also they've refused to give them longer range missile systems



Where have I suggested that?

Abrams tanks have yet to be delivered:

Ukraine to receive first 10 Abrams tanks in September

The 10 US-made Abrams tanks are expected to arrive in Ukraine in mid-September.

www.pravda.com.ua

where have you suggested that? why, just above. you KNOW that iraq and afghanistan weren't given things like patriot missiles or abrams tanks - and you'd be laughed out of washington if you suggested the iraqi or afghan airforce should have f-16s.

 

[Pickman's model]

Abrams tanks have yet to be delivered:

Ukraine to receive first 10 Abrams tanks in September

The 10 US-made Abrams tanks are expected to arrive in Ukraine in mid-September.

www.pravda.com.ua

you'll find something to moan about in all circumstances i see

 

[kebabking]

The Iraqi Air Force does have F-16's - they also have M1 Abrams tanks....

 

[ska invita]

Having never protested at it, I have absolutely no idea. But the main issue with DSEI for me at least is this:

View attachment 389859

Ukraine on the other hand save for small arms and ant-tank weaponry is largely being supplied, particularly by the US with out-of-date (to the us military at least) weaponry which are no longer used or supplied to their own forces.

fucking moaning soap dodgers am i rite

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[DaveCinzano]

The Iraqi Air Force does have F-16's - they also have M1 Abrams tanks....

Valued for their surprisingly fast rate of climb and punchy dogfighting capabilities I presume?

 

[Pickman's model]

The Iraqi Air Force does have F-16's - they also have M1 Abrams tanks....

But not challengers I believe

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[kebabking]

But not challengers I believe

No, I think we wanted money for them...

Standard stuff really - firstly that the Iraqi government & Army knew which side their bread was buttered and always chose US gear, and secondly that the US grasps the wisdom of having stockpiles: it meant that when the Iraqi's were looking for new equipment the US could whip out a ready made Army/Air Force, which made them the 'go to' partner, whereas we could only provide small numbers of anything, with anything above that having huge lead times.

 

[teqniq]

you'll find something to moan about in all circumstances i see

You'll find I was not moaning but merely stating facts.

 

[Pickman's model]

You'll find I was not moaning but merely stating facts.

The two aren't as binary as you suggest.

 

[teqniq]

The two aren't as binary as you suggest.

I am not suggesting anything. just referring to the link I posted. Now this thread is actually about DSEI which is why I posted the open democracy piece regarding the police and their attempts to gather info on potential protestors. If you want to take the Ukraine armaments thing to the actual Ukraine thread please feel free to tag me otherwise I will not respond here.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am not suggesting anything. just referring to the link I posted. Now this thread is actually about DSEI which is why I posted the open democracy piece regarding the police and their attempts to gather info on potential protestors. If you want to take the Ukraine armaments thing to the actual Ukraine thread please feel free to tag me otherwise I will not respond here.

Yeh that's why you posted the od bit. But it doesn't explain your introduction of Ukraine armament onto this thread. Nor indeed why you felt you had to minimise the American bounty.

 

[ska invita]

I'll wave to the soap dodgers as I go in. I might even sign a placcard for you if you're really lucky...

Thank you for all your hard work spreading security to our planet

Going for a shower now, will scrub hard
Talking of washing, does the blood every wash off your hands?

 

[kebabking]

Thank you for all your hard work spreading security to our planet

Going for a shower now, will scrub hard

Cheers. I'll give myself an extra crumpet for brunch and pretend it's from you.

 

[MickiQ]

I'll wave to the soap dodgers as I go in. I might even sign a placcard for you if you're really lucky...

Do you get free samples?

 

[kebabking]

Do you get free samples?

To a degree - freebies and gizzits like it's going out of fashion. Diaries, t-shirts (why I might want a General Dynamics Land t-shirt I don't know, but it's great for decorating...) and the like, the best thing is the tablets they give out with all the guff on them - I can normally hoover up 50 or 60 by the end of the week. Local schools love me....

I did see if Supacat wanted to bribe me with a stripped down Jackal with which to proclaim my mid-life crisis, but sadly they weren't interested.

 

[MickiQ]

To a degree - freebies and gizzits like it's going out of fashion. Diaries, t-shirts (why I might want a General Dynamics Land t-shirt I don't know, but it's great for decorating...) and the like, the best thing is the tablets they give out with all the guff on them - I can normally hoover up 50 or 60 by the end of the week. Local schools love me....

I did see if Supacat wanted to bribe me with a stripped down Jackal with which to proclaim my mid-life crisis, but sadly they weren't interested.
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View attachment 390020

Wouldn't they be better with some armour on them? If I was the guy on the top I would definitely be feeling a bit exposed there. Though I suppose no-one would cut you up driving around the Forest of Dean, at least not twice.
All I've ever had from trade fairs and conventions are pens and notepads (paper ones). I did get a t-shirt once but as soon as I got home, Mrs Q took a shine to it and appropriated it as ladies nightwear.

 

[NoXion]

Wouldn't they be better with some armour on them? If I was the guy on the top I would definitely be feeling a bit exposed there.

Armour is heavy, and more weight means a slower speed and a greater likelihood of getting bogged down, especially with a wheeled vehicle. Modern warfare cleaves pretty tightly to the doctrine of combined arms, in which units with different capabilities and drawbacks are used simultaneously in various roles, in order to achieve a greater impact than a mass of similar units can do. It's also more cost effective. Otherwise every military combat vehicle would just be a tank or something.