Driverless trains on the Tube?

[8ball]

RMT is not happy about this - could be 'lethal' (which I guess is true, as evinced by the documentary 'The Terminator'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29520761

I've always thought driverless trains sounded a lot more feasible as an idea than driverless cars, which seem to be pretty safe from initial tests even with prototype software.

Are they a really bad idea for some reason that I haven't thought of?

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Deja ju again.

 

[DotCommunist]

apparently they have them in france

no doubt our lot our motivated by greed, a desire to shit on RMT members and the thought of handing loads of public money to a private company who will sell us crap, flawed design but never get the blame for the inevitable train crash to follow

 

[Pickman's model]

do these trains make any attempt to stop when people throw themselves in front of them?

 

[Pickman's model]

Deja ju again.

it's always the jus

 

[8ball]

no doubt our lot our motivated by greed, a desire to shit on RMT members and the thought of handing loads of public money to a private company who will sell us crap, flawed design but never get the blame for the inevitable train crash to follow

Yeah, in principle it seems like the way to go, but you're going to need to change lots of tech and processes to keep everything as safe. I saw an RMT paper mentioning lots and lots of other changes that LU were talking about making too that increase the weaknesses of driverless trains (fewer trackside patrols etc.).

 

[Bungle73]

apparently they have them in france

no doubt our lot our motivated by greed, a desire to shit on RMT members and the thought of handing loads of public money to a private company who will sell us crap, flawed design but never get the blame for the inevitable train crash to follow

Inevitable train crash? When was the last time there was a crash on the DLR? As far as I remember there hasn't been one.

 

[Pickman's model]

Inevitable train crash? When was the last time there was a crash on the DLR? As far as I remember there hasn't been one.

there goes the thread

 

[Bungle73]

do these trains make any attempt to stop when people throw themselves in front of them?

Even with a human driver they can't stop in time anyway.

 

[Pickman's model]

Inevitable train crash? When was the last time there was a crash on the DLR? As far as I remember there hasn't been one.

do you know what inevitable means? it means it WILL happen, not it HAS happened

 

[DotCommunist]

Inevitable train crash? When was the last time there was a crash on the DLR? As far as I remember there hasn't been one.

yes, thanks to the vigilance of unionised train drivers

 

[Bungle73]

yes, thanks to the vigilance of unionised train drivers

What? The DLR is driveless.

 

[8ball]

Even with a human driver they can't stop in time anyway.

There are barrier and sensor-based solutions to many of these questions but it's a valid concern (like the case of that kid that caught between the train and the tracks).

 

[TitanSound]

ATO has been in use for donkeys years. The Victoria Line has been using it since it opened. The driver doesn't actually "drive" the train.

 

[Bungle73]

do you know what inevitable means? it means it WILL happen, not it HAS happened

Um, of course I know what it means. How does my post indicate that I don't? You are making no sense.

 

[DotCommunist]

What? The DLR is driveless.

oh the light overground one? its only a matter of time imo

 

[Pickman's model]

Even with a human driver they can't stop in time anyway.

that doesn't answer my question.

what about if someone's trapped between the train and the platform, who stops the train then?

 

[Bungle73]

oh the light overground one? its only a matter of time imo

Um, what other one is there.......?

A matter of time? The DLR opened in 1987, that's 27 years ago, and no major incidents.

 

[Pickman's model]

Um, of course I know what it means. How does my post indicate that I don't? You are making no sense.

your last post clearly & strongly implies your belief that if a crash on the dlr was inevitable it would have happened by now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Um, what other one is there.......?

A matter of time? The DLR opened in 1987, that's 27 years ago, and no major incidents.

you don't remember 1987, do you.

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/blast-from-the-past-a-precariously-positioned-dlr-train/

 

[8ball]

The driver doesn't actually "drive" the train.

Everyone's working from home these days...

 

[el-ahrairah]

similarly, the central line has the capacity now to be driverless and has done for many years. fortunately the RMT etc have successfully campaigned to keep an operative on the trains so that there is someone who knows what is going on.

LUL would love to have a fully automated system without any operatives at all. not at stations, not on platforms, not on the train. that's the long-term aim - and they'll get it in the end.

 

[Pickman's model]

Um, what other one is there.......?

A matter of time? The DLR opened in 1987, that's 27 years ago, and no major incidents.

22/4/1991: two trains collide at a junction on the west india quay bridge. that count as a crash?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are barrier and sensor-based solutions to many of these questions but it's a valid concern (like the case of that kid that caught between the train and the tracks).

Well the Jubilee line has barriered off platforms on the new bits. Be a big job to get that for the whole system, very big job, I'd have thought.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Setting aside the issue of drivers, the trains do look pretty . And cool will be the operative word.

 

[Pickman's model]

Setting aside the issue of drivers, the trains do look pretty . And cool will be the operative word.

especially in winter no doubt

 

[Bungle73]

that doesn't answer my question.

what about if someone's trapped between the train and the platform, who stops the train then?

Well how does it work on the DLR? I still say that a train wouldn't be able to stop in time no matter who, or what, was driving.

your last post clearly & strongly implies your belief that if a crash on the dlr was inevitable it would have happened by now.

Um, you claimed that drive-less Tube trains would lead to an "inevitable" crash. I pointed out that the DLR has been running driver-less for years without incident. You're just scaremongering.

Every day people's lives depend on various computer systems working correctly.

The problem with driverless Tube trains isn't technical, it's people's willingness to actually have them

you don't remember 1987, do you.

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/blast-from-the-past-a-precariously-positioned-dlr-train/

I do actually. And an accident under testing doesn't count. That's what testing is for: ironing out teething problems

 

[DotCommunist]

similarly, the central line has the capacity now to be driverless and has done for many years. fortunately the RMT etc have successfully campaigned to keep an operative on the trains so that there is someone who knows what is going on.

LUL would love to have a fully automated system without any operatives at all. not at stations, not on platforms, not on the train. that's the long-term aim - and they'll get it in the end.

they'll probably still employ revenue protection bods though

 

[Pickman's model]

Well how does it work on the DLR? I still say that a train wouldn't be able to stop in time no matter who, or what, was driving.

Um, you claimed that drive-less Tube trains would lead to an "inevitable" crash. I pointed out that the DLR has been running driver-less for years without incident. You're just scaremongering.

Every day people's lives depend on various computer systems working correctly.

The problem with driverless Tube trains isn't technical, it's people's willingness to actually have them


I do actually. And an accident under testing doesn't count. That's what testing is for: ironing out teething problems

22 april 1991. west india quay bridge. two trains collide. is two trains colliding a crash? a simple yes would do.

 

[Bungle73]

LUL would love to have a fully automated system without any operatives at all. not at stations, not on platforms, not on the train. that's the long-term aim - and they'll get it in the end.

That's never going to happen. You're always going to need a human around in case something goes wrong, especially in the confined space of a Tube tunnel. Even the DLR, which has been driverless for years, has a human on board who can take over if the system goes down.

Well the Jubilee line has barriered off platforms on the new bits. Be a big job to get that for the whole system, very big job, I'd have thought.

The barriers are for airflow.