Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

[krtek a houby]

We know he didn't lose, but we also know his audience are not the most learned, critical, well-read, well-informed and dare I say it, intelligent assembly of voters around.

Do we?

All of them? Because if you believe that all his supporters are just that - you can see why being vilified and dismissed might swell the ranks of Republican voters.

I say Republican voters because that's not exactly the same thing as MAGA voters.

There's always going to be the core vote, of course. But there were millions who felt disenfranchised and ignored by the Democrats and previous Republican administrations. Trump appeals to them because he's saying stuff that strikes a chord. Stuff about jobs and the economy. And rightly or wrongly*, he's seen as someone who cuts through the bullshit and empty promises of previous leaders.



*wrongly, probably

 

[spring-peeper]

It was starting to bother me that Trump has been getting good reviews lately. Man of the Year, creating jobs, etc. Finally something that is not pro-Trump.

Judge denies Trump petition to dismiss hush-money case over immunity claims

Juan Merchan rules ‘decidedly personal acts’ of falsifying records pose no danger of intrusion on executive function

www.theguardian.com

A judge on Monday ruled that Donald Trump’s conviction for falsifying records to cover up a sex scandal should stand, rejecting the president-elect’s argument that it should be dismissed because of the US supreme court’s recent ruling on presidential immunity, a court filing showed.

Manhattan judge Juan Merchan’s decision eliminates one potential off-ramp from the case ahead of Trump’s return to office next month. His lawyers have raised other arguments for dismissal, however.

In a 41-page decision Merchan said Trump’s “decidedly personal acts of falsifying business records poses no danger of intrusion on the authority and function of the executive branch”.

 

[krtek a houby]

It was starting to bother me that Trump has been getting good reviews lately. Man of the Year, creating jobs, etc. Finally something that is not pro-Trump.

Judge denies Trump petition to dismiss hush-money case over immunity claims

Juan Merchan rules ‘decidedly personal acts’ of falsifying records pose no danger of intrusion on executive function

www.theguardian.com

Well, as pointed out earlier - he doesn't quite grasp the meaning of the award and obviously hasn't read the Time article, either.

The concern of course, is that he sees himself as immune) above the law or decides to pardon himself.

His core, and acolytes alike, will be fine with it.

But voters will turn if he fails to deliver on the economy and jobs. Third term promises or not.

 

[spring-peeper]

Well, as pointed out earlier - he doesn't quite grasp the meaning of the award and obviously hasn't read the Time article, either.

The concern of course, is that he sees himself as immune) above the law or decides to pardon himself.

His core, and acolytes alike, will be fine with it.

But voters will turn if he fails to deliver on the economy and jobs. Third term promises or not.

It really does not matter what the article says, he and has follower will see this as further proof that he is wonderful. Imo, it is kinda cute that he actually won the top spot. Do you remember when there was a fuss about Trump having fake pictures of him winning the "Man of the Year" award when he didn't?


And, I disagree with the idea that his voters will shift their support. He will find excuses. Just recently, Trump said that there is no way to bring food prices down. While campaigning he said he would bring down the prices, But he can't. so he gives them a reason and they just go "OK'.

 

[krtek a houby]

It really does not matter what the article says, he and has follower will see this as further proof that he is wonderful. Imo, it is kinda cute that he actually won the top spot. Do you remember when there was a fuss about Trump having fake pictures of him winning the "Man of the Year" award when he didn't?


And, I disagree with the idea that his voters will shift their support. He will find excuses. Just recently, Trump said that there is no way to bring food prices down. While campaigning he said he would bring down the prices, But he can't. so he gives them a reason and they just go "OK'.

Yes, that's mentioned in the article. As are lots of contradictory statements about abortion, mass deportations and war with Iran.

And the article also raises the question of what will happen if he doesn't deliver, and notes that there weren't enough MAGA to win the election for him but bringing RFK into the fold helped funnel votes his way, as did his U-turn on postal votes. Oh, and Musk aligning with Trump brought more voters in as well.

It's an interesting and chilling article. Worth reading if you haven't already.

 

[krtek a houby]

Trump says it's 'terrible' that some people are valorizing Luigi Mangione: 'That's a sickness, actually'

"It seems that there's a certain appetite for him," Trump said of the shooting suspect, Luigi Mangione. "I don't get it."

www.businessinsider.com

Trump out of step with public feeling?

He thinks that the support for Mangione is a "sickness" and that it might be "fake".

Now why on earth would a billionaire fraudulent grifter try and play down Luigi's popularity?

 

[xenon]

How to point out the bleeding obvious.

We know he didn't lose, but we also know his audience are not the most learned, critical, well-read, well-informed and dare I say it, intelligent assembly of voters around.

It's been suggested many times that American politics is more about presentation than policies (hence the big hair, fake tan and ultra shiny teeth), so all you need to do is feed people's fears/bigotry/ignorance/stupidity with various phrases guaranteed to resonate or reinforce.

It's worked pretty well with Reform in this country too, even though Nige has the face of a frog and the manners of a country squire removing you from his land.

So Trump and Farage Are popular because people are stupid?

Great analysis.

 

[Flavour]

The question of the SoftBank investment in America, which would apparently be billions of dollars and create 100,000 jobs, shows a fundamental shift in America's vision of itself in geopolitics, because for decades America has been the country that invested directly in other countries, becoming more import dependent and outsourcing jobs. And now too much of America's economy has been outsourced, particularly to China, and Trump aims to fix that with tariffs. And companies like SoftBank, which essentially represent Japan, can avoid tariffs for their countries by reversing the outsourcing of the past and investing money that they have made, partly thanks to American foreign direct investment in the past, back into America.

 

[Kris Silver]

someone who’s tired of reading this shit

Do you award yourself a special exception card from your own condemnations then?

I mean your posts are essentially more guilty, less on topic, purely complaining and criticising other people in a petty nasty way. Not a single example of posting on topic or in ways you apparently like to see.

The irony, hypocrisy and lack of self awareness levels are off the charts. Don't do as I do, do as I say. How about stop talking shite yourself.

 

[Elpenor]

The question of the SoftBank investment in America, which would apparently be billions of dollars and create 100,000 jobs, shows a fundamental shift in America's vision of itself in geopolitics, because for decades America has been the country that invested directly in other countries, becoming more import dependent and outsourcing jobs. And now too much of America's economy has been outsourced, particularly to China, and Trump aims to fix that with tariffs. And companies like SoftBank, which essentially represent Japan, can avoid tariffs for their countries by reversing the outsourcing of the past and investing money that they have made, partly thanks to American foreign direct investment in the past, back into America.

And while SoftBank is ultimately run by Masa Son; its investment fund is also another vehicle for Saudi wealth IIRC - not sure how that would be seen in the US

 

[Derek S-H]

So Trump and Farage Are popular because people are stupid?

Great analysis.

So how would you describe the easily-manipulated MAGA/Deform crowd, then?

Why vote for someone who clearly just wishes to pardon himself for all his crimes (I'm not even going to bother with alleged) and is using the Presidential office to do so, or an MP who still hasn't barely made an appearance in his constituency nor any kind of representation in Parliament?

If you're not smart enough to see through their tactics, intentions and lies, then some of the responsibility lies with you. You can do all the sophisticated analysis in the world, but sometimes a fundamental truth is staring you right in the face.

 

[krtek a houby]

So how would you describe the easily-manipulated MAGA/Deform crowd, then?

Why vote for someone who clearly just wishes to pardon himself for all his crimes (I'm not even going to bother with alleged) and is using the Presidential office to do so, or an MP who still hasn't barely made an appearance in his constituency nor any kind of representation in Parliament?

If you're not smart enough to see through their tactics, intentions and lies, then some of the responsibility lies with you. You can do all the sophisticated analysis in the world, but sometimes a fundamental truth is staring you right in the face.

Again, do you believe that of all those who voted for him?

 

[andysays]

I'm starting to think that, however bad the next four years of Trump's Presidency turn out to be, they won't actually be as depressing as the next four years of spam videos, wanky insults and general shit posting that this thread seems to have descended into

 

[krtek a houby]

Woop woop

 

[Derek S-H]

Again, do you believe that of all those who voted for him?

It doesn't matter what I believe - I didn't vote for him.

But I recognise a malignant, disruptive influence feeding red meat to his supporters when I see one, in both cases.

Do you not think this is evident?

 

[krtek a houby]

It doesn't matter what I believe - I didn't vote for him.

But I recognise a malignant, disruptive influence feeding red meat to his supporters when I see one, in both cases.

Do you not think this is evident?

As mentioned above, it's more than just Trumpists what voted for the guy.

People have been shafted and ignored by successive Republican and Democratic adminstrations.

You surely can see the attraction of someone who promises a better economy and more jobs?

 

[Derek S-H]

As mentioned above, it's more than just Trumpists what voted for the guy.

People have been shafted and ignored by successive Republican and Democratic adminstrations.

You surely can see the attraction of someone who promises a better economy and more jobs?

Not at the expense of the Environment, no.

And I'm sure we'll have a similar debate and complaints about the Labour administration in this country too over the next 4/5 years. Nige will claim that he and his "Party" are some sort of saviours and have all the solutions, so it's up to us to see through the bullshit.

 

[krtek a houby]

Not at the expense of the Environment, no.

And I'm sure we'll have a similar debate and complaints about the Labour administration in this country too over the next 4/5 years. Nige will claim that he and his "Party" are some sort of saviours and have all the solutions, so it's up to us to see through the bullshit.

Good luck with that. Labour will be out in their ear, the voters are tired of the Tories - perhaps they will actually vote for the spiv.

And not that they are lacking intelligence or racist but they might just feel as ignored as their counterparts in the US.

 

[Flavour]

Saudi and Japan are both seen in the US establishment as countries that owe the US a debt because they became rich largely through American investment, though obviously in very different ways. In any case the enormous wealth built up in both countries over recent decades would not have been possible without the continued and reliable custom of the US, whether for oil or electronic goods.

 

[kabbes]

Not at the expense of the Environment, no.

And I'm sure we'll have a similar debate and complaints about the Labour administration in this country too over the next 4/5 years. Nige will claim that he and his "Party" are some sort of saviours and have all the solutions, so it's up to us to see through the bullshit.

You’re part of the reason that populists are gaining power. Oddly enough, people don’t tend to vote for the side that is dismissing them as stupid.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think everyone is well aware that Trump is a horrible fuck tbh. That was definitely my reaction when he was first touted as president - 'there's no way that twat will get elected surely, that's ridiculous'. That was the best part of a decade ago though and the idea that 'Trump is a horrible cunt' adds anything in 2024 is just a bit silly now. It's not insight, it's not even meaningful criticism tbh. More widely it's also part of the problem - the Democrats have run three elections now on 'look how horrible he is' and have scraped home in one of them.

 

[klang]

Charisma?

Relentless self-promotion and standing on a podium, boring the tits off everyone for two hours, whilst rambling a load of lies and of incoherent shite, is not charisma.

It is because it is different to what people in his position usually do.

 

[Flavour]

I think everyone is well aware that Trump is a horrible fuck tbh. That was definitely my reaction when he was first touted as president - 'there's no way that twat will get elected surely, that's ridiculous'. That was the best part of a decade ago though and the idea that 'Trump is a horrible cunt' adds anything in 2024 is just a bit silly now. It's not insight, it's not even meaningful criticism tbh. More widely it's also part of the problem - the Democrats have run three elections now on 'look how horrible he is' and have scraped home in one of them.

feelings of moral superiority among the liberals in the face of Trump are indeed quite pathetic

 

[emanymton]

People have been shafted and ignored by successive Republican and Democratic adminstrations.

So they voted for Trump?

He is my problem with this, I can't see how this is anything other than calling the stupid but a bit phrased a but nicer. Frankly I could cope with being called stupid easier than this "poor thing just doesn't understand" approach. Voting for Trump is a stupid thing to do and those that did it are stupid* but they are not so stupid as to not understand what to they voted for, they know full well what they voted for. The stupidity is in thinking it won't come back and bite them, it is thinking that somehow it will help them get ahead. The problem with Trump voters isn't that there stupid, it's that fundamentally they are just unpleasant human beings.



Who are also stupid


*It might be better to say irrational, I have also heard them called not serious which might have some merit.

 

[Rompipalle]

It is because it is different to what people in his position usually do.

At the risk of invoking Godwin, it is what a certain moustachio’d Austrian vegetarian used to do in the 1930s, so not necessarily a particularly good style to emulate.

 

[emanymton]

I think everyone is well aware that Trump is a horrible fuck tbh. That was definitely my reaction when he was first touted as president - 'there's no way that twat will get elected surely, that's ridiculous'. That was the best part of a decade ago though and the idea that 'Trump is a horrible cunt' adds anything in 2024 is just a bit silly now. It's not insight, it's not even meaningful criticism tbh. More widely it's also part of the problem - the Democrats have run three elections now on 'look how horrible he is' and have scraped home in one of them.

He gets votes because he is a cunt not despite it. I have a lot of time for the argument that he gets votes because he represents what those people want. Freedom to act how they want without consequences.

 

[emanymton]

Charisma?

Relentless self-promotion and standing on a podium, boring the tits off everyone for two hours, whilst rambling a load of lies and of incoherent shite, is not charisma.

I don't fucking get it either but it obviously appeals to a lot of people.

 

[Ax^]

So Trump and Farage Are popular because people are stupid?

Great analysis.

aye they are also racist self interest fearful twats and who dislike women folk

 

[klang]

At the risk of invoking Godwin, it is what a certain moustachio’d Austrian vegetarian used to do in the 1930s, so not necessarily a particularly good style to emulate.

 

[Flavour]

Trump and Hitler had wildly different oratorial styles, it's not even comparable. What the fuck is this level of analysis?