Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

The meatheads counter that by suggesting they need less vitamin C ...
Of course the loss of the ability to synthesise it came from a time when mammals like us ate loads more fruit and green things ...

Can you eat too much liver? - Google Search

Yes, I *think* it happened not that long after we diverged from the mammal branch that later diverged into cats and dogs.
"We" moved away from a carnivorous diet, and the mutation that broke our GLO gene became fixed <as in broken in the entire population> during a population bottleneck.

Quite tiresome that our bodies still do every part of the vitamin C synthesis process, except for the borked last step.

 

[8ball]

It refers to the amino acid content

I know. Biochem and genetics background.

The only "sort of issue" is that grains are low in one of the essential amino acids, and legumes are low in a different one (I'm going to test myself without Google and say grains are low in valine <might be lysine> and legumes are low in methionine - could be the wrong way round). Some other veggie things like broccoli and hemp seed are good all-rounders. Broccoli is generally amazing in lots of ways - almost completely replaces the benefits of dairy just by itself.

But anyway, it's a really big part of the reason why almost every cuisine in the world has had dishes combining grains (including rice) and legumes. Unless you are lifting a *lot* of weights, that combining of foods basically solves the issue.

edit: wasn't valine - was lysine - almost there. no references to cysteine will be accepted cos that's just methionine for people who like eggy farts

 

[campanula]

because their preaching is based on poor evidence and oftentimes hypocritical.

So what? It is fucking amazing to me, that such a furor is caused by people's eating choices. There is plenty to criticise in everyone's diet - absolutely none of us are truly ethical and all of us are enmeshed in far nastier and more damaging dietary 'choices' because the global food industry is brutal, unhealthy and wildly exploitative. If we so much as eat a biscuit or buy an orange, we are shitting all over some oppressed labourer and greedily ignoring the deforestation caused by our western diets - veganism is just another fad - no worse than any of the other decadent food choices which we claim as some sort of right. Until we literally eat nothing out of season, only grown locally without massive industrial land wreckage, involving no cruelty or injustice to man or beasts, there are none of us in any position to lecture or moan about anyone else,here in the privileged (and utterly unfair and unsustainable) world of supermarket domination and cheap food. I will guarantee it - there is no-one here eating a diet which allows them to occupy some moral high ground. Moreover, while food banks are increasing even here, (along with malnutrition - rickets ffs) in the globally developed north, it is repugnant to me to hear whining foodies of any stripe.

 

[gentlegreen]

Personally I will continue to moan at privileged westerners who advocate living on almost nothing but grass-fed beef - for all the obvious reasons.

 

[8ball]

So what? It is fucking amazing to me, that such a furor is caused by people's eating choices.

It's mostly not eating choices as such that puts people's noses out of joint in my experience (I had Facebook advertising a course in Edinburgh where I could be trained as a vegan preacher the other night - just amused me, but that's a small example the kind of Joey Carbstrongy stuff that makes people go 'oh ffs'). Happy to forward deets to anyone interested in the course. They didn't come back on whether they would pay my train fare...

Then again the general 'philosophy' element that comes with veganism a lot of the time is sometimes also very relevant in my view. I was reading about the history of veganism the other night and about how early concerns were very tied up with the mass industrialisation of food production which comes with an assortment of issues, and not entirely from an animal agriculture issue either. Exactly the stuff you bring up in your post.

Basically, I have mixed feelings about the cultural elements of veganism.

 

[Rivendelboy]

So what? It is fucking amazing to me, that such a furor is caused by people's eating choices. There is plenty to criticise in everyone's diet - absolutely none of us are truly ethical and all of us are enmeshed in far nastier and more damaging dietary 'choices' because the global food industry is brutal, unhealthy and wildly exploitative. If we so much as eat a biscuit or buy an orange, we are shitting all over some oppressed labourer and greedily ignoring the deforestation caused by our western diets - veganism is just another fad - no worse than any of the other decadent food choices which we claim as some sort of right. Until we literally eat nothing out of season, only grown locally without massive industrial land wreckage, involving no cruelty or injustice to man or beasts, there are none of us in any position to lecture or moan about anyone else,here in the privileged (and utterly unfair and unsustainable) world of supermarket domination and cheap food. I will guarantee it - there is no-one here eating a diet which allows them to occupy some moral high ground. Moreover, while food banks are increasing even here, (along with malnutrition - rickets ffs) in the globally developed north, it is repugnant to me to hear whining foodies of any stripe.

If you're flying around the world like Earthling Ed preaching that cows will end civilisation through methane pollution then "so what" is a very pertinent question.

If you're arguing what people should eat then you need to back it up when trying to influence public policy, liket he EAT Lancet report

 

[Proper Tidy]

complete proteins, better bioavailability, better sources of nutrients. Liver for example is very strong.

Wish you'd just get it done with and shag a cow and leave us be m8

 

[Teaboy]

Why do people still interact with this waste of space cunt?

 

[The39thStep]

anyone had these? Do they taste like the proper thing?

 

[gentlegreen]

I saw a thing in a French paper earlier about a vegan chap who was mortified when he found the fake ham pizza he'd eaten wasn't ...

I swear I can taste the revolting things myself now - over 40 years since I last tasted them - yuck

 

[T & P]

anyone had these? Do they taste like the proper thing?

No. But no.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Presumably those vegan scratchings are just loads of salt and fat and probably taste pretty much like the pork version

 

[gentlegreen]

Presumably those vegan scratchings are just loads of salt and fat and probably taste pretty much like the pork version

I vaguely remember from decades back there was a vegan product that was basically fake dripping ...

 

[The39thStep]

Presumably those vegan scratchings are just loads of salt and fat and probably taste pretty much like the pork version

"Made with flash fried soya and seasoned with a unique spice mix". Presumably no hairs though

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

As long as they taste initially delicious but then increasingly wrong as you eat more then I'm in.

 

[Proper Tidy]

When I was 13 we went to spain on holiday and my brother bought some shit fishing rod, a little one with a fixed plastic reel and line already attached for about £3, and we tried fishing off the near end of this pier thing using cheese, no bites after an hour. We went to shop for some european crisps because they are always better and my brother bought spanish pork scratchings by mistake, they were big lumpy things with hairs on, tasted rank. So we stuck one on as bait, chucked line in, sea by us went mental for a few seconds and my brother nearly got dragged in before shit rod went off never to be seen again. Anyway fish love pork scratchings

 

[Proper Tidy]

Anyway in a pub I will always go scampi fries

 

[campanula]

It's ironic that despite having almost unlimited choices, the general population are eating less healthily than they did back in the days of the 'National Loaf' and government orange juice. I think the motivations for choosing meat-free diets are entirely laudable...although not a choice I have made, it wouldn't be that awful if circumstances dictated a meat-free existence (although obviously, much depends on how these circumstances come into being). Veganism, as a choice, only impacted my life when my daughter announced she was going down that path. I admit I worried about my grand-daughter's diet since my daughter was keen on the ethical aspects and it was popular in her social circle...but I know she didn't have any sort of committment to the actual nutritional changes, especially for a milk,cheese and chicken loving 8 year old. Anyway, turned out to be expensive and hard work so she has gone back to being a not terribly good vegetarian. We can all live with that.
I think the sensible thing is to basically eat locally, seasonally and simply and be glad we have enough of it.

 

[Artaxerxes]

It's ironic that despite having almost unlimited choices, the general population are eating less healthily than they did back in the days of the 'National Loaf' and government orange juice. I think the motivations for choosing meat-free diets are entirely laudable...although not a choice I have made, it wouldn't be that awful if circumstances dictated a meat-free existence (although obviously, much depends on how these circumstances come into being). Veganism, as a choice, only impacted my life when my daughter announced she was going down that path. I admit I worried about my grand-daughter's diet since my daughter was keen on the ethical aspects and it was popular in her social circle...but I know she didn't have any sort of committment to the actual nutritional changes, especially for a milk,cheese and chicken loving 8 year old. Anyway, turned out to be expensive and hard work so she has gone back to being a not terribly good vegetarian. We can all live with that.
I think the sensible thing is to basically eat locally, seasonally and simply and be glad we have enough of it.

The unlimited choice tends to actually surprisingly limited. Lots of processed crap full of sugar and salt.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

The unlimited choice tends to actually surprisingly limited. Lots of processed crap full of sugar and salt.

Yes, no and maybe.

We've access to so many things in regular super markets if you don't mind cooking it.

 

[campanula]

We've access to so many things in regular super markets if you don't mind cooking it.

Gods yes - I had never seen a courgette or an aubergine until I left home. The most wildly exotic foodstuff I could think of (as a child|) was pomegranate. You can stroll down the aisles and buy buckwheat and gram flour, wild rice, a million different cheeses (it was Cheddar, Cheshire and Kraft slices when I was a kid).

 

[farmerbarleymow]

An interesting long read about the reactions vegans can cause (according to the article anyway). One the things it argues is how veganism can be perceived the threaten peoples' identity and way of life.

Why do people hate vegans?

 

[Saul Goodman]

An interesting long read about the reactions vegans can cause (according to the article anyway). One the things it argues is how veganism can be perceived the threaten peoples' identity and way of life.

Why do people hate vegans?

People don't generally hate vegans. They just hate the preachy fucks.

 

[krtek a houby]

Have to say, out of all the vegans and vegetarians I've actually met, none of them are preachy. I did hear someone say last night that they didn't deserve to live, mind

 

[gentlegreen]

I no longer consider myself vegan - or even vegetarian, but it's how I eat most of the time - i.e. I rely on my vegan nutrition being correct.

I adopted a vegan diet in the early 80s - initially for moral reasons, but also partly because I really didn't know how to eat, and the food I was being introduced to was yummy and interesting, and environmentally-conscious, and it soon meant I was eating more healthily than most people - something I always took for granted - and for which I am massively grateful all these years later - though I never actually did enough research in those pre-internet days.

Nearly 40 years later as I wrestle my way back to full health after over-indulging sufficiently over the past 15 to develop an actual quantifiable health issue - and thinking up some sort of diet plan for the next phase of my life, I find myself wondering if something hasn't gone awry.

Of course there have always been vegans who go in the opposite direction - starving for the cause, plus the dozens of people on social media with obvious eating disorders plugging raw-foodism, but I've recently fallen-out with people for questioning their raving about being able to get vegan fast food so easily.

 

[Rivendelboy]

"Made with flash fried soya and seasoned with a unique spice mix". Presumably no hairs though

The best part

 

[Rivendelboy]

Have to say, out of all the vegans and vegetarians I've actually met, none of them are preachy. I did hear someone say last night that they didn't deserve to live, mind

I don't doubt there are vegans who aren't preachy. But i've not met any which is a shame because common ground could help campaign against what both 'sides' agree: end abusive industrial farming.

People that say vegans don't deserve to live are just fucking idiots.

 

[Poot]

I don't doubt there are vegans who aren't preachy. But i've not met any which is a shame because common ground could help campaign against what both 'sides' agree: end abusive industrial farming.

People that say vegans don't deserve to live are just fucking idiots.

You're doing that us and them thing again. Even though you put quote marks around 'sides' doesn't alter that.

 

[krtek a houby]

I don't doubt there are vegans who aren't preachy. But i've not met any which is a shame because common ground could help campaign against what both 'sides' agree: end abusive industrial farming.

People that say vegans don't deserve to live are just fucking idiots.

It was one of those moments where it was said as a joke, but one of those jokes where you have the suspicion that they half mean it.

 

[8ball]

It was one of those moments where it was said as a joke, but one of those jokes where you have the suspicion that they half mean it.

Other groups that don’t deserve to live going by recent offline conversations: cyclists, traffic wardens, people who frequent nail bars, anti-vaxxers, anyone who has had anything whatsoever to do with trying to organise Brexit, XR (new entrant but currently in the top spot), and a particular department at my work.

Organised lynch mobs have yet to emerge, funnily enough.