Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

That's false. Carbs are completely non essential, is just that eating zero is not easy

I'm now wondering whether you know what carbs are.

I looked up a few ZERO carb diets. None of them are zero carb - I shouldn't have been surprised.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm now wondering whether you know what carbs are.

He's gone down the keto rabbithole - one obscure paper that has fuelled a multimillion dollar diet industry for people who like eating lard and think "soy" turns men into social workers.

 

[8ball]

He's gone down the keto rabbithole - one obscure paper that has fuelled a multimillion dollar diet industry for people who like eating lard and think "soy" turns men into social workers.

To be clear, I was talking about *absolute* zero carbs. Every "zero carb" thing I can find basically means severely restricted carbs. Even then, you're basically kicking your body into a state which is really meant for no-food emergencies. So not good imo, but better than attempting absolute exclusion of carbs, which in reality is near impossible with anything resembling "food".

ps - I've read a few things suggesting lard isn't all that bad

 

[SheilaNaGig]

It's true that there isn't an absolute consensus on the link between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease (there rarely is in nutrition science) but there is still quite a lot of evidence suggesting a link. Furthermore there have been no studies to my knowledge that have claimed that swapping out saturated fat for unsaturated fat increases the risk in heart disease. In light of this, it makes sense to err on the side of caution and to aim to consume fat from unsaturated sources rather than saturated sources, other things being equal.

Did you look at the link?

It outlines some of the complexities of LDL and HDL and subsets of these, and how they interact and mitigate and ameliorate physiological loading.

Whether or not any of this is specifically/definitively good/bad for CVD is so complicated as to be verging on opinion.

But we're starting to unpick some if the detail about how saturated fats behave in the body. That link gives some lay-person level information about some of the findings. And it looks like "bad" fats help us to process "good" fats.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That's false. Carbs are completely non essential, is just that eating zero is not easy

Oh gods not this shit again.

 

[gentlegreen]

To be clear, I was talking about *absolute* zero carbs. Every "zero carb" thing I can find basically means severely restricted carbs. Even then, you're basically kicking your body into a state which is really meant for no-food emergencies. So not good imo, but better than attempting absolute exclusion of carbs, which in reality is near impossible with anything resembling "food".

ps - I've read a few things suggesting lard isn't all that bad

Eating so few carbs that the body is forced to power itself on weird fat metabolites rather than converting stored fat into carbs - which I assume requires freely-available blood glucose to power the process.
These loons pour coconut oil in their coffee - which is a hanging offence in itself.

 

[8ball]

These loons pour coconut oil in their coffee - which is a hanging offence in itself.

Doesn't it just float on the top?

 

[Rivendelboy]

I'm now wondering whether you know what carbs are.

I looked up a few ZERO carb diets. None of them are zero carb - I shouldn't have been surprised.

I've no idea what you've looked up, why is that relevant?

 

[Rivendelboy]

If you're marooned in the Arctic and all you have is blubber to eat, it might keep you alive, but you owe it to the people you share bathroom facilities with to eat normal food - and to yourself to allow a little joy into your diet.

Apparently athletes sometimes go low carb to optimise their fat metabolism for intermediate energy supply, but no way does Chris Froome fuel up on lard for a race.

One brilliant thing about carbs is how incredibly cheap they are.
Most successful cultures get the bulk of their calories from carbs (mostly grain).

I haven't and don't advocate people eat zero carbs, I simply said that the claim people need carbs is false. They don't. If you find the idea of a low/zero carb joyless then don't eat one. Simple enough

 

[Rivendelboy]

I'm now wondering whether you know what carbs are.

I looked up a few ZERO carb diets. None of them are zero carb - I shouldn't have been surprised.

That's just your own incredulity speaking about something you don't understand nor want to. That's on you. If you want to show evidence that carbs are essential then go for it

 

[Rivendelboy]

He's gone down the keto rabbithole - one obscure paper that has fuelled a multimillion dollar diet industry for people who like eating lard and think "soy" turns men into social workers.

What paper is that?

If you'd paid attention instead of bloviating you'd know that I'd said many times that I think people who mock those who eat soy are wrong to do so. By all means continue parading your dishonesty

Eating so few carbs that the body is forced to power itself on weird fat metabolites rather than converting stored fat into carbs - which I assume requires freely-available blood glucose to power the process.
These loons pour coconut oil in their coffee - which is a hanging offence in itself.

Some do, some don't. It isn't required. I don't even drink coffee.

You just don't understand what you're talking about and the more you try the stupider you look. What are 'weird fat metabolites'? What on earth are you whining about? How does the body convert stored fat into carbs? You don't need carbs you daft twat

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Butter is a really good source of butyric acid, which is a very good thing.


ETA
It looks very much like butyric acid is helpful for diabetics. And if auto-immune conditions are gut related or gut biome related (they often are) the butyric acid seems to be helpful there too.

I'm glad to read that this is the case. I don't get on so well with alternatives like nut based or soy based.

 

[gentlegreen]

Urban will be much more pleasant with him on ignore.
Isn't he due for another banning yet ?

 

[Rivendelboy]

Oh fucking cry more you ignorant cunt

Urban will be much more pleasant with him on ignore.
Isn't he due for another banning yet ?

 

[8ball]

That's just your own incredulity speaking about something you don't understand nor want to. That's on you. If you want to show evidence that carbs are essential then go for it

Go on, give me an example of one day's worth of food with no carbs. Whatever food you like.

At this stage I'm not sure you even know what that word means, despite your blustering.

 

[Poot]

Anytime now probably.

 

[Rivendelboy]

Go on, give me an example of one day's worth of food with no carbs. Whatever food you like.

Why? As I've repeatedly told you, I don't advocate it.

Try this if you're genuinely interested (you aren't): No-Carb Diet: Benefits, Downsides, and Foods List

found in three seconds of making an effort

 

[8ball]

Why? As I've repeatedly told you, I don't advocate it.

Try this if you're genuinely interested (you aren't): No-Carb Diet: Benefits, Downsides, and Foods List

found in three seconds of making an effort

Found in three seconds of no effort by a moron.
Now, taking it slowly, look at that food list.

How many have no carbs in?

 

[gentlegreen]

Ketogenic diet - Wikipedia
Ketosis - Wikipedia

Adverse effects
The most common side effects of ketosis include headache, fatigue, dizziness, insomnia, difficulty in exercise tolerance, and constipation, and nausea especially in the first days and weeks after starting a ketogenic diet.[26] Breath may develop a sweet, fruity flavor due to production of acetone that is exhaled due to its high volatility.[6]

Most adverse effects of long-term ketosis reported are in children due to its longstanding acceptance as a treatment for pediatric epilepsy. These include compromised bone health, stunted growth, hyperlipidemia, and kidney stones.[28]

It doesn't fill me with enthusiasm ...

 

[SpookyFrank]

Go on, give me an example of one day's worth of food with no carbs. Whatever food you like.

At this stage I'm not sure you even know what that word means, despite your blustering.

I already explained to his prior incarnation I'm not doing it again.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Why? As I've repeatedly told you, I don't advocate it.

Try this if you're genuinely interested (you aren't): No-Carb Diet: Benefits, Downsides, and Foods List

found in three seconds of making an effort

That's a very low carb diet. It's NOT no carb.

"How to follow a no-carb diet

Some online sources recommend keeping your net carb intake to 20–50 grams per day on a no-carb diet, but there are no specific macronutrient ranges or any set protocol.

Simply put, when you follow a no-carb diet, you avoid all high-carb foods."

 

[8ball]

It doesn't fill me with enthusiasm ...

Useful for a limited range of health problems. Comes with its own range of health problems.
Even so, such diets are not "zero carb" (though they are very low).

 

[Rivendelboy]

Found in three seconds of no effort by a moron.
Now, taking it slowly, look at that food list.

How many have no carbs in?

Again why are you asking me this?

 

[Rivendelboy]

Ketogenic diet - Wikipedia
Ketosis - Wikipedia



It doesn't fill me with enthusiasm ...

Those symptoms, which are not experienced by everyone (i didnt), are due to the body adjusting from a diet high in carbs to one low. They can be mitigated very easily if you'd bothered to read something other than wiki.

But again if you don't want to eat keto...don't

 

[Rivendelboy]

Useful for a limited range of health problems. Comes with its own range of health problems.
Even so, such diets are not "zero carb" (though they are very low).

Please list those health problems

 

[8ball]

Again why are you asking me this?

Because I said I had looked up some zero carb diets, and they are not zero carb, and you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.
So I asked about the foods on a list you provided yourself. Which ones have absolutely zero carbs?

It seems you have already had this conversation with SpookyFrank anyway - he knows a bit about biology if memory serves.

 

[8ball]

Please list those health problems

Some are listed just a few posts up, ffs!!

Ok, for starters - compromised short term memory.

 

[Rivendelboy]

Because I said I had looked up some zero carb diets, and they are not zero carb, and you claimed I didn't know what I was talking about.
So I asked about the foods on a list you provided yourself. Which ones have absolutely zero carbs?

It seems you have already had this conversation with SpookyFrank anyway - he knows a bit about biology if memory serves.

I don't care what you have or haven't looked up since it has nothing to do with any position I hold. The claim was that carbs are essential.

 

[Rivendelboy]

Some are listed just a few posts up, ffs!!

Ok, for starters - compromised short term memory.

I already addressed those, just a few posts up.

A cursory reading on keto would have explained to you the adaptation process which, again, doesn't affect everyone and is only mentioned for the sake of full disclosure. If you were referring to something else then explain it

 

[8ball]

I don't care what you have or haven't looked up since it has nothing to do with any position I hold. The claim was that carbs are essential.

Personally, I contested that with no carbs at all you would get sick pretty quickly.
In the sense of side effects of your body being in a particular state, rather than the classic 'deficiency disease' (scurvy, rickets etc.).

I'd be interested in any decently detailed evidence involving someone's experience of a diet with zero carbs for an extended period.

As opposed to ones like this where the writer is still eating a lot of carbs, just cutting out bread, pasta and the usual stuff. And then got kinda sick, but that's by the by.


* - going with the mathematical definition of the term