Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[Rivendelboy]

Yeah, it's not really a new phenomena, people love to attach themselves like a limpet to any story that they think gives veganism a bloody nose. The BBC website usually has a half baked "headline story" knocking knocking some aspect of veganism every 2 to 3 months.

As for Mr Tufano. I'd put him in the same ball park as Sv3rige. They are both rabid anti vegan activists. Here is the caveman doing his Fred Flinstone impression and gatecrashing an AV gathering. Paul did lose his shit a bit and became the mythical "angry vegan" when confronted with this level of stupid...

If you think Tufano, even dressed up like a caveman, is remotely akin to a dmonstrable lunatic like Sv3rige then you have no objectivity. The first source cited on that link is from Cowspiracy. Not remotely credible. That film is pure vegan propaganda. It's also edited; the vegan guy makes poor arguments that jump cut when he flounders. His attitude is dreadful and he argues fallaciously

I'm by no mean's Frank's biggest fans and have criticised some of his views publicly (by which i mean on forums that he has responded to). However he at least tries to cite credible sources (watch his videos) and has done research. I don't eat his diet, I'm not convinced by it, but your claim is spurious and this is fairly obviously a hit piece. In no way does he attack people. He has videos where he criticises vegan diets and epople who, at the risk of their own health, advocate it, as well as utter morons like 'Vegangains', a popular youtube vegan body builder who has some dreadful views.

I don't think dressing up like fred flintstone is any worse than the vegan guy at the start of the clip with his aggressive attitude, or any of the other violently unpleasant vegan activists, or misinformed clowns who, like for example, Earthling Ed. He argues against the supposed environmental impact of meat while jetting around the world to do street activism in places like America. Who's funding that?

IME vegans are way more aggressive and overbearing than their opponents, on balance.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm by no mean's Frank's biggest fans and have criticised some of his views publicly (by which i mean on forums that he has responded to). However he at least tries to cite credible sources (watch his videos) and has done research. I don't eat his diet, I'm not convinced by it, but your claim is spurious and this is fairly obviously a hit piece. In no way does he attack people. He has videos where he criticises vegan diets and epople who, at the risk of their own health, advocate it, as well as utter morons like 'Vegangains', a popular youtube vegan body builder who has some dreadful views.

suppose it could be purely accidental that Klaper's video was washed out, but comments on that video (no way was I going to actually WATCH it) obsessed about him looking older than his age.
Tufano looks distinctly peaky to me ...

 

[Artaxerxes]

Olive oil is fantastic.

 

[Rivendelboy]

suppose it could be purely accidental that Klaper's video was washed out, but comments on that video (no way was I going to actually WATCH it) obsessed about him looking older than his age.
Tufano looks distinctly peaky to me ...

View attachment 183581

I have no idea what you're talking about here or why Tufano's appearance is relevant.

 

[Rivendelboy]

If I eat a burger, but don't intend to kill a cow, does that justify it morally?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Would suggest anybody who wears fancy dress to protest a vegan gathering is a dickhead. Life's short, find something worth bothering protesting or just spend time with loved ones or something

 

[8ball]

What percentage of meat eaters do you think are anti-vegan? Conversely, what percentage of vegans do you think are anti-meat-eater?

It’s mostly just self-id culture wars bollocks that has seen a recent uptick in carnie extremists imo.
The recent relative boom in the popularity of veganism provided something convenient to rail against.

Was talking about this yesterday with a friend who became vegan fairly recently. Her boyfriend has been a vegan for 20 years and back then there were a lot of reasons to feel embattled, but she doesn’t at all.

There are plenty of YouTube/Twitter brats and opportunists, but they’re pretty easy to ignore if you’re not into that.

 

[gentlegreen]

I have no idea what you're talking about here or why Tufano's appearance is relevant.

Tufano appears to be a sickly-looking young twat with an overblown opinion of his own expertise - which makes it ironic that he would accuse a 71 year old man of looking old - glancing at his videos, he seems to be somewhat obsessed about how others should look - so fair game I reckon.

I don't think even that man with no neck likes him much.

 

[Rivendelboy]

Tufano appears to be a sickly-looking young twat with an overblown opinion of his own expertise - which makes it ironic that he would accuse a 71 year old man of looking old - glancing at his videos, he seems to be somewhat obsessed about how others should look - so fair game I reckon.

I don't think even that man with no neck likes him much.

How is any of this relevant? Your argumentation is as unpleasant and poor as that Bashir guy you linked to. If he had spoken to me like that preaching on the street i'd told him to go fuck himself.

 

[gentlegreen]

How is any of this relevant? Your argumentation is as unpleasant and poor as that Bashir guy you linked to. If he had spoken to me like that preaching on the street i'd told him to go fuck himself.

It wasn't me who linked that footage of the twat in his Fred Flintstone outfit.

 

[Rivendelboy]

It wasn't me who linked that footage of the twat in his Fred Flintstone outfit.

You're arguing that Frank's appearance is relevant and you haven't explained why.

 

[gentlegreen]

 

[gentlegreen]

I wish I hadn't mentioned him now - plenty of idiots on the other side - like "Fully Raw Christina" et al. (and I only know about HER idiocy thanks to "Unnatural Vegan" - the only young vegan youtuber I used to subscribe to), but the keto/carnist "community" seems to have different motivations.

 

[gentlegreen]

That French reference I posted earlier seems to be a conspiratard site - my Android phone is offering me such trash these days.

 

[Rivendelboy]

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You are trying argue that his critique of Klaper is invalid because, according to you, he's a "sickly-looking young twat". Tell me again how I'm missing the point.

You haven't put forward an argument and are just getting defensive. Would you like to evidence your position, or shall i assume you haven't a fucking clue?

Tufano may enjoy wearing make up and have excessive vanity, but sickly looking? give me a break.

 

[Rivendelboy]

I wish I hadn't mentioned him now - plenty of idiots on the other side - like "Fully Raw Christina" et al. (and I only know about HER idiocy thanks to "Unnatural Vegan" - the only young vegan youtuber I used to subscribe to), but the keto/carnist "community" seems to have different motivations.

There's no shame in being wrong, the problem with someone like Paul Bashir is that he's dishonest and aggressive and doesn't address points put to him. He also deflects from criticism. This is evident from the video he puts as his lead video on his own YT page. In the discussion with Tufano he namechecks Vegan Gains as if he's someone worth listening to. Vegan Gains is a vile bully who publicly was pleased his granddad died (he believed it was because he ate fat and meat) and has also publicly said babies should be killed. He is a psychopath, and I mention him because he is a popular figure in the (Youtube at least) vegan community. For further evidence of this community and it's utter unpleasantness, go to the discord server of a would be philosphper (and Sam Harris fanboy) called 'Ask Yourself'. The guy is a complete cunt as are his vile acolytes. All bullies.

Yes of course there are arseholes who advocate meat, including carnivore diet. But I have never encountered the same degree of organised shaming and emotional bullying, backed up only by appeals to emotion (edited factory farming footage). I don't want to deal with people liek that and I don't want to be people like that. Eat what you like, try and be a decent person. That's all.

 

[Poot]

If I eat a burger, but don't intend to kill a cow, does that justify it morally?

I think the cow would notice that it was missing.

 

[Rivendelboy]

I think the cow would notice that it was missing.

The common vegan argument is that it's ok when animals die in the production of food if that wasn't the intention. Eg, we harvest wheat, mice die in the field, but their deaths are 'accidental', the intent isn't to kill them but to produce the wheat.

My intention is to eat meat, not to kill cattle.

In both cases animal death is involved and unavoidable.

 

[Proper Tidy]

What do cows eat

 

[Poot]

The common vegan argument is that it's ok when animals die in the production of food if that wasn't the intention. Eg, we harvest wheat, mice die in the field, but their deaths are 'accidental', the intent isn't to kill them but to produce the wheat.

My intention is to eat meat, not to kill cattle.

In both cases animal death is involved and unavoidable.

So some dead field mice are like the massive global meat industry, are they?

Fuck it, I've gone over this so many times I can't be bothered.

 

[Rivendelboy]

So some dead field mice are like the massive global meat industry, are they?

Fuck it, I've gone over this so many times I can't be bothered.

Ok then

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The common vegan argument is that it's ok when animals die in the production of food if that wasn't the intention. Eg, we harvest wheat, mice die in the field, but their deaths are 'accidental', the intent isn't to kill them but to produce the wheat.

My intention is to eat meat, not to kill cattle.

In both cases animal death is involved and unavoidable.

*Your* intention is not the relevant one though. The animal agriculture industry intends to kill the animals whereas the accidental deaths of field animals are, by definition, not intended by the crop agriculture industry.

When you buy meat you intend to support the intentional killing of animals whereas when you buy plants you intend to purchase a product that may have involved the death of field animals.

 

[gentlegreen]

I was about to post about the prestigious group of (French-speaking) Belgian doctors who recently claimed a vegan diet needed constant medical intervention and possible legal action against parents, but this rebuttal beat me to it.

"On May 16, the press relayed the opinion of the Royal Academy of Medicine of Belgium proscribing the vegan diet for children, adolescents, pregnant and lactating women, leaving to other categories of people the responsibility of this dietary regime and its consequences."

"The ARMB depends on the Wallonia Brussels Federation. Its Dutch-speaking counterpart, the Konijnklijke Academie voor Geneeskunde van België, has not delivered a joint opinion on the effects of veganism on health."

Google Translate

Non, un régime alimentaire végétalien ne présente pas de danger pour la santé - notre-planete.info

The French news feed on my phone is pretty horrific in terms of anti-veggie crap and woo - I already turned off "gylyphosate" and "Monsanto" as subjects.

 

[Rivendelboy]

So some dead field mice are like the massive global meat industry, are they?

Fuck it, I've gone over this so many times I can't be bothered.

Some eggs harvested from a chicken coup in the backyard aren't like the massive global meat industry either, so what?

 

[Poot]

Some eggs harvested from a chicken coup in the backyard aren't like the massive global meat industry either, so what?

No. That's right. Some eggs from some chickens aren't like the global meat industry. I have no idea what you're trying to argue here. But I'd enjoy watching a chicken coup.

 

[gentlegreen]

But I'd enjoy watching a chicken coup.

 

[Rivendelboy]

No. That's right. Some eggs from some chickens aren't like the global meat industry. I have no idea what you're trying to argue here. But I'd enjoy watching a chicken coup.

the same point as you.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Animal Farm 2: Commando Henrietta

 

[Funky_monks]

The arable/fruit and veg farming industry does intentionally kill animals in their millions, though.

Will nobody think of the flea beetles?

 

[gentlegreen]

Meanwhile in France at their version of DEFRA ...

A certain Jocylene Porcher bemoans that vegans are too matey with high tech industry in their quest for meat alternatives.

Not only does she have personal connections to the pork industry, her family name MEANS pig-keeper !

Végans et industriels : le pavé dans la mare d’une sociologue montpelliéraine