Did Palestine really exist?

[ViolentPanda]

For Jewish Zionists, true, it is about real estate, but you cannot forget security either, from anti-Semitism and persecution (without the need for security, real estate would be irrelevant).

For Christian Zionists, it's solely about salvation (and consequently there is considerable anti-Semitism in the Christian Zionist plank).

In other words the Zionism of the so-called Christians, is instrumental, serving only their own purpose.

Didn't their messiah have quite a bit to say about those who act selfishly?

I don't disagree about the Judaeophobia inherent in much of their interpretations of Biblical history and fable. Hypocrisy is rife in their ideology.

I believe their messiah also had some opinions on hypocrites.

There are some Jews who want to gain salvation through their Zionism, but they tend to be a very small minority.

Commonly known as "nutters".

 

[nino_savatte]

However, over the past 120 years it have been taken to mean one thing: religious, ethnic, racial hatred of Jews.

And how did this come about? I know but do you?

 

[Jonti]

Anti-Semitism is indeed a misnomer -- it accurately refers to hatred of the Semitic languages.

However, over the past 120 years it have been taken to mean one thing: religious, ethnic, racial hatred of Jews.

An unambiguous term for hatred of Judaism or Jewishness is Judaeophobia.

 

[astronaut]

In other words the Zionism of the so-called Christians, is instrumental, serving only their own purpose.

Didn't their messiah have quite a bit to say about those who act selfishly?

I don't disagree about the Judaeophobia inherent in much of their interpretations of Biblical history and fable. Hypocrisy is rife in their ideology.

I believe their messiah also had some opinions on hypocrites.

Commonly known as "nutters".

Agreed on all points.

 

[astronaut]

And how did this come about? I know but do you?

Around the 1870s, German anti-Semites wanted to gain some "scientific" respectibility, so they started using "anti-Semitism" as a "scientific" term.

 

[astronaut]

An unambiguous term for hatred of Judaism or Jewishness is Judaeophobia.

Judaeophobia is archaic.

 

[tangentlama]

An unambiguous term for hatred of Judaism or Jewishness is Judeophobia

Agreed, and that's the best term to use, but the same people who directed the antisemitism against Hebrews/Jews in the 20th C, was the same as other arabic-speaking semites had in the 18th/19th C from Europeans, and the same as Jews before that, so even being anti-Islam is antisemitism since it's tongue is Arabic, also a semitic language. When it's 'antiseitism' that can be also applied, like some hate-formula-by-rote, to Islam or Arabs as well as Judaism or Hebrews, then we should perhaps point out that antisemitism does still exist, and encompasses both Judeophobia and Islamophobia. What we can call the tensions between the two, which Hitler seems to have tried to set up with the Catholic Church, which Ford engendered with his multiple publications and translations of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, those I see as machinations to weaken the Semitic hold on the Middle Eastern region. The bloody Romans have been at for the best part of the last 2,000 years. Now their about to launch the new unifying theory. All classic state-entryism into religion,

It would and could stand up in a court of law, but no-one's tried it yet. The same laws which protect Jews can protect Islam too.

 

[tangentlama]

Judaeophobia is archaic.

Romano-Greek, you mean. Antisemitism is the appropriate term to use as long as one remembers that this applies to both Hebrew and Arabic speakers, and also to both Judaic and Islamic religions - if it doesn't mean both, then use a more specific term.

 

[astronaut]

as long as one remembers that this applies to both Hebrew and Arabic speakers, and also to both Judaic and Islamic religions

As I've been arguing for days now, the vast literature on anti-Semitism out there is about hatred of Jews, not Arabs. Why can't you accept a fact? You can't just change a well-established definition because it suits you politically - it will only piss off people.

 

[nino_savatte]

As I've been arguing for days now, the vast literature on anti-Semitism out there is about hatred of Jews, not Arabs.

You can't just change a well-established definition because it suits you politically - it will only piss off people.

Aye but it's a redefinition, rather than a definition proper. The redefining of the term "anti-semitism" is a recent phenomenon...like Zionism.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

As I've been arguing for days now, the vast literature on anti-Semitism out there is about hatred of Jews, not Arabs. Why can't you accept a fact? You can't just change a well-established definition because it suits you politically - it will only piss off people.

you haven't been argueeing dick tbh

you have had a aft of actual evidence posted to show you are wrong and you claim loads but evidence nothing...

you are argueeing the i saw it on tv it must be true line...

put up or shut up i'd say...

 

[moono]

tangentlama;

Antisemitism is the appropriate term to use as long as one remembers that this applies to both Hebrew and Arabic speakers, and also to both Judaic and Islamic religions - if it doesn't mean both, then use a more specific term.

On the button.

 

[astronaut]

Aye but it's a redefinition, rather than a definition proper. The redefining of the term "anti-semitism" is a recent phenomenon...like Zionism.

What do you mean? Anti-Semitism has only ever had one definition = hatred of Jews - that is why it was created, to give scientific credence of hatred of Jews.

Just found an interesting piece of information "Judeophobia" was first used in 1882, or 3 years after "anti-Semitism."

you have had a aft of actual evidence posted to show you are wrong

Really? I haven't seen a single piece of evidence to suggest I'm wrong.

you claim loads but evidence nothing...

WTF ??!!!! What about those dictionaries I looked in? How about the vast quantity of literature?

You are clearly off your head !!!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Judaeophobia is archaic.

So are any number of words.

Judaeophobia is, however, far more accurate and self-explanatory, and on the whole less loaded than "anti-Semitism".

 

[nino_savatte]

What do you mean? Anti-Semitism has only ever had one definition = hatred of Jews - that is why it was created, to give scientific credence of hatred of Jews.

Just found an interesting piece of information "Judeophobia" was first used in 1882, or 3 years after "anti-Semitism."






Really? I haven't seen a single piece of evidence to suggest I'm wrong.






WTF ??!!!! What about those dictionaries I looked in? How about the vast quantity of literature?

You are clearly off your head !!!

Really? The phrase "anti-Semitism" is an ideologically loaded one and was rendered thus by the Zionist movement. Semites, as we all know, includes Arabs and Assyrians as well as Jews. Btw, Maltese is a Semitic language, though the people themselves are likely to be of Phoenician origin.

I hope the rest of your post wasn't addressed to me.

 

[astronaut]

Really? The phrase "anti-Semitism" is an ideologically loaded one and was rendered thus by the Zionist movement. Semites, as we all know, includes Arabs and Assyrians as well as Jews. Btw, Maltese is a Semitic language, though the people themselves are likely to be of Phoenician origin.

Like I said, Zionists didn't create the term, the anti-Semites did.

As for claiming the term is "ideologically loaded," do you mean that anti-Semitism has been exaggerated by the Zionists?

(The rest wasn't aimed at you.)

 

[nino_savatte]

Like I said, Zionists didn't create the term, the anti-Semites did.

As for claiming the term is "ideologically loaded," do you mean that anti-Semitism has been exaggerated by the Zionists?

(The rest wasn't aimed at you.)

Oh, for fuck's sake! Do you always read things into people's post that aren't there? I refer in particular to your middle comment (emboldened). It's clear your definition of "ideology" is very narrow. It is ideologically loaded because it has been ideologically colonised by Zionists. We all know that Jews are not the sum total of the Semitic community, but certain people have an interest in maintaining the myth...that is to say, keeping the phrase as an exclusive term for the use of [a narrow section of] Jews and Jews alone.

 

[astronaut]

Oh, for fuck's sake! Do you always read things into people's post that aren't there? I refer in particular to your middle comment (emboldened). It's clear your definition of "ideology" is very narrow. It is ideologically loaded because it has been ideologically colonised by Zionists.

Zionism emerged due to anti-Semitism. They didn't colonize it -- it created them, in much the same way that many Jews went to socialism, as a result of anti-Semitism.

We all know that Jews are not the sum total of the Semitic community, but certain people have an interest in maintaining the myth...that is to say, keeping the phrase as an exclusive term for the use of [a narrow section of] Jews and Jews alone.

Since it was German nationalists who created the term, not Zionists, specially to represent hatred of Jews, this POV is not valid.

 

[tangentlama]

the German Philologist (language specialist) who 'invented' that term would have referred to Jews as 'Palestinians', and not as Jews.

 

[tangentlama]

Zionism emerged due to anti-Semitism. They didn't colonize it -- it created them, in much the same way that many Jews went to socialism, as a result of anti-Semitism.

I think Panda is best to explain this to you. I have to go and study now

 

[astronaut]

the German Philologist (language specialist) who 'invented' that term would have referred to Jews as 'Palestinians', and not as Jews.

Wilhelm Marr was variably an agitator and theorist or unemployed journalist.

He was not a philologist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Marr

 

[tangentlama]

I'm thinking of Max Mueller's references to Race and Language. He was a philologist. There is no doubt that to me that the phrase was used first in Germanic Philological circles.

 

[astronaut]

I'm thinking of Max Mueller's references to Race and Language. He was a philologist. There is no doubt that to me that the phrase was used first in Germanic Philological circles.

Even Max Mueller thought of Semitic races and Jews as synonymous.

 

[tangentlama]

And I was so certain that Max Mueller made the distinction between language group and ethnicity.


Can you quote me what he said on Semitism, since you now suddenly seem to be familiar with him....

 

[ViolentPanda]

Zionism emerged due to anti-Semitism. They didn't colonize it -- it created them, in much the same way that many Jews went to socialism, as a result of anti-Semitism.

You're conflating disparate elements to give an incorrect whole IMCO.

Judaeophobia "activated" the emergence of the handful of different ideological strands known as "Zionism". Zionism pre-existed both Herzl (who in fact didn't orignate Zionism but merely drew the strands together into something akin to a philosophy) and the coininng of the term "anti-Semitic".
So it isn't accurate to claim that "anti-Semitism" created Zionism and Zionists. They pre-existed it.
It would however be accurate (at least in terms of this thread) to claim that Judaeophobia created "Zionisms".

Since it was German nationalists who created the term, not Zionists, specially to represent hatred of Jews, this POV is not valid.

A touch of the "hoist by his own petard" there, I do believe.

 

[nino_savatte]

Zionism emerged due to anti-Semitism. They didn't colonize it -- it created them, in much the same way that many Jews went to socialism, as a result of anti-Semitism.






Since it was German nationalists who created the term, not Zionists, specially to represent hatred of Jews, this POV is not valid.

You have trouble understanding what is meant by "colonisation" in the socio-cultural sense. The word, "semite" was ideologically colonised by Zionists; and Zionism, incidentally, was not universally popular among European Jews in the period before WWII.

As for my pov not being "valid", that is what I expected you to say. Anything that does not conform to your ideological contours is not "valid". Therefore I shall take your comment as an example of ideological posturing.

 

[moono]

 

[astronaut]

And I was so certain that Max Mueller made the distinction between language group and ethnicity.


Can you quote me what he said on Semitism, since you now suddenly seem to be familiar with him....

Just what I saw on Wikipedia

 

[nino_savatte]

Is that who I think it is?

Top act!

 

[Jonti]

Judaeophobia is archaic.

Not any more. It's gotten* back into contemporary English just now.

*