Did Palestine really exist?

[nino_savatte]

Nino: First you claim that I have a "superiority complex" about my ethnicity, and then in the same post challenge me on being Jewish. Yerp, par for the course.

Jonti: Race has nothing to do with specieis. It is not biologically categorised, but rather anthropologically.

Garfield: So I am racist pretending to be Jewish to inspire anti-Jewish hatred? Yep. I am so dedicated to it that I am completely fluent in Hebrew, Yiddish, and Ladino as well as having 23 years in the IDF. You know, I believe in going all out. How did you figure me out?

Aye, you are a racial supremacist; an ethno-centrist, if you will and your posts are testament to that. You are inconsistent when it comes to your alleged background and your military service. Even your remarks on Jewishness are inconsistent.

Now to your reply to Garf, it wouldn't be the first time a racist has posed as Jewish in order to promote their vile agenda. Being Jewish does not exclude you from being a racist (if you are Jewish that is).

 

[astronaut]

Now to your reply to Garf, it wouldn't be the first time a racist has posed as Jewish in order to promote their vile agenda. Being Jewish does not exclude you from being a racist (if you are Jewish that is).

I really don't like to defend Rach, but it seems Garfield is using this form of attack on a regular basis.

He has tried to use it against me, and he also did against a poster in the past.

Have I missed any more times he's used this?

That makes me think that maybe Garfield is using this as defamation, rather than truth.

I am definately Jewish, and Rach definately seems to be one too - it would be extremely difficult for a non-Jew to pretend so well, and maybe that was the same with past posters?

 

[Jonti]

Astronaut,

Rachamim18 is a fraud, a Walter Mitty character. He may well believe in Zionism, but he behaves like a person of his own imagining. He is not reality based (!) and is no friend of yours, of that I am sure. Best, I suggest, to think of him as an avatar in a multiplayer online textbased roleplaying game. He is not sincere. But you are real, and, it seems to me, can tell when others here are also being real and sincere. Best not to let his literary avatar fuck with your head.

I'm at something of an advantage in spotting acts like his as I've spent quite a lot of time on anti-cult boards. Cults can really mess people up, but folks who are still in a cult go to great lengths to deny this fact. Some of them go so far as to make up a person, a happy cultist with a fake history and background. Strange but true. It's as if they think that altho' their cult delivers misery and confusion, they can use make-believe to show that it *could* be the good thing they once believed it to be. It's just that bad people keep on screwing up their scene for them.

Most likely, he's a middle aged, sad and disillusioned jerk whose imaginary online persona gives meaning to an otherwise bleak existence. My take is that he is into Zionism, but as a quasi-religious cult (strangely like Osama's band is into "Islam"). He defends his online persona in the same sorts of ways as the deluded cultists I've met. But his lack of literary skills and ability with English let him down, as does his inability to use the net effectively.

His kind of trolling can be highly bewildering, and divisive. It've seen it deployed in an organised way against anticult boards, where it can be a marvellously effective tactic for closing down discourse. Imagine the havoc and hatred he could have created here, were it not for our own, most excellent, Violent Panda*.



* not to deny the contribution of others, of course. But blimey, is VP the business or what?

 

[nino_savatte]

I really don't like to defend Rach, but it seems Garfield is using this form of attack on a regular basis.

He has tried to use it against me, and he also did against a poster in the past.

Have I missed any more times he's used this?

That makes me think that maybe Garfield is using this as defamation, rather than truth.

I am definately Jewish, and Rach definately seems to be one too - it would be extremely difficult for a non-Jew to pretend so well, and maybe that was the same with past posters?

Please read and comprehend my post, not what you would like my post to say.

It is worth repeating that there have been people who have popped up and claimed to be Jewish only for them to be revealed as a member of the Aryan Brotherhood...or some such cuntish group. As for his ethno-centricity, would you disagree that he is ethno-centric? You say rach seems to be Jewish, in other words you aren't convinced - non?

 

[moono]

He certainly displays the brutishness, arrogance and lack of compassion of a Zion-soaked IOF thug. So he's probably not 'Jewish' in the civil and accepted sense.

 

[astronaut]

It is worth repeating that there have been people who have popped up and claimed to be Jewish only for them to be revealed as a member of the Aryan Brotherhood...or some such cuntish group.

Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Garfield has used this attack at least 3 times before -- atleast in two of those cases he was wrong and/or lying -- how many other times has he used it?

Perhaps the third time he was also wrong and/or lying?

As for his ethno-centricity, would you disagree that he is ethno-centric? You say rach seems to be Jewish, in other words you aren't convinced - non?

I'm convinced he is -- he has a high level of knowledge about Judaism -- although I disagree with him on most things, he is very much Jewish.

Rachamim18 is a fraud, a Walter Mitty character. He may well believe in Zionism, but he behaves like a person of his own imagining. He is not reality based (!) and is no friend of yours, of that I am sure.

Perhaps, I am not denying that I find him distasteful -- but to deny he is Jewish and even start to view him as a white supremist is too much -- especially since that argument was tried against me as well, but non-other than Garfield, again !!!

 

[nino_savatte]

Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Garfield has used this attack at least 3 times before -- atleast in two of those cases he was wrong and/or lying -- how many other times has he used it?

Perhaps the third time he was also wrong and/or lying?





I'm convinced he is -- he has a high level of knowledge about Judaism -- although I disagree with him on most things, he is very much Jewish.






Perhaps, I am not denying that I find him distasteful -- but to deny he is Jewish and even start to view him as a white supremist is too much -- especially since that argument was tried against me as well, but non-other than Garfield, again !!!

I keep forgetting that while you may not be like rachamim18, you share his love of bombast and "getting into people's faces" with your supremely correct position.

He is racist and he has made several (if not more) statements that underline his hatred of other peoples (particularly the Palestinian people). You are either giving him too much credence or you are playing "nice cop" to his "nasty cop". Which is it? Accusing him of being a "racial supremist" is actually closer to the mark than you would care to admit...or is it the case that because he says he is Jewish that this automatically excludes him from being a racist? Think about that...but I know you won't since you also seem to believe that Jews cannot be racist.


I will take no lectures from you either, energy_release.

 

[CyberRose]

The whole concept of a nation state is an illusion in any case.

The issue is not whether there was a state called Palestine - it's what has happened to people in an area that has been taken over by someone who didn't previously control it. The idea that seems to go around that Palestine never really existed so it's okay to do what you want with it... well, it's just irrelevant.

I agree. What difference does it make whether or not there was a nationa state called Palestine in the past? Loads of new states crop up all the time but nobody argues against them because of the past do they?

People use the fact that there wasn't a Palestinian state in history as an argument that there shouldn't be one in the future, which is just daft. It's clutching at straws to find excuses as to why Israel should keep power over Palestine (probly due to religious beliefs not security)

 

[CyberRose]

[note to self]
1. check thread IS actually only 3 pages long before you reply
2. check if anyone's actually still debating the topic!!!
[/note to self]

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I really don't like to defend Rach, but it seems Garfield is using this form of attack on a regular basis.

He has tried to use it against me, and he also did against a poster in the past.

Have I missed any more times he's used this?

That makes me think that maybe Garfield is using this as defamation, rather than truth.

I am definately Jewish, and Rach definately seems to be one too - it would be extremely difficult for a non-Jew to pretend so well, and maybe that was the same with past posters?

translation

I astornutbag have been roasted for my incosistant approach to these forums, my lies, my deicetful nature, the fact that i am in consistant in what i say not nly that but i am rude sactimonious and aggressive without ever stating what my poltics are other than a vauge veiled reffererence. Garfield has poitn this out repeatdly pulled holes in my statements and made me look like and utter shower, which is what my gestault online charachter is... so in effect i have been rumbelled...

i keep attempting to smear him however in order that maybe i can pull the wool over the rest of the forums eyes....

it's seems how ever that this forum doesn't wish to hear the words of the mighty astrobollocks they mock me when they should just follow me...

I am12...

better.... i feel....(garf)

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

[note to self]
1. check thread IS actually only 3 pages long before you reply
2. check if anyone's actually still debating the topic!!!
[/note to self]

oi io welcome back

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

actually fuck it can we get and ip check please on astromud and rach...

 

[moono]

Lol. You're right ( #218)

The relevant legislation is modern and clear. My claim, a common enough complaint, is that the American veto supports shyster lawyers in maintaining the conflict.
However, I don't share their belief that the UN will eventually crack. It's young and growing stronger.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Lol. You're right ( #218)

The relevant legislation is modern and clear. My claim, a common enough complaint, is that the American veto supports shyster lawyers in maintaining the conflict.
However, I don't share their belief that the UN will eventually crack. It's young and growing stronger.

i doubt it the un was built on the fimlsey premise that the league of nations failed because it had no excutive or real power; and none of the allies could possibly do anything bad...

it about time that the veto rules were changed summit along he lins of if a motio is continiously blocked the rest of the un can vote it through and over rule the veto by general un consenious...

 

[Gmart]

i always thought that the countries with their borders on the country in question should all have a veto. And i think that the permanent veto should go.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

i always thought that the countries with their borders on the country in question should all have a veto. And i think that the permanent veto should go.

nah that would work imagine isreal actually did summti which would benifit the region and the other countries boardering it decided that they were going to veto it because it was isreal...

 

[Gmart]

i think you've dismissed it as an idea a tad quick there. And anyway Israel is a bit of a strange example to use.
If this system were used then only the countries involved in the issue would have the power, surely this would strengthen localism!!

 

[Jonti]

He certainly displays the brutishness, arrogance and lack of compassion of a Zion-soaked IOF thug. So he's probably not 'Jewish' in the civil and accepted sense.

Indeed not.

One can be Jewish without being Zionist, Zionist without being Jewish. And one can also be a person without a conscience. In the case of rachamim18, I think we can all agree that the person behind the avatar shows no awareness of the moral law within.

 

[Jonti]

i think you've dismissed it as an idea a tad quick there. And anyway Israel is a bit of a strange example to use.
If this system were used then only the countries involved in the issue would have the power, surely this would strengthen localism!!

Since I was a teenager, marvelling at the fact that multi-million pound war planes were so often used against villages of bamboo shacks and mud-brick hovels, I've held the belief that the fighter who travels the furthest to kill for his cause is most likely not on the right side.

 

[snorbury]

the siberian regiments fought extremely well at stalingrad against the germans romanians and some ukrainians, but on the whole i think your probably right

 

[nino_savatte]

Indeed not.

One can be Jewish without being Zionist, Zionist without being Jewish. And one can also be a person without a conscience. In the case of rachamim18, I think we can all agree that the person behind the avatar shows no awareness of the moral law within.

Precisely, the Rapturists aren't Jewish but are fervent Zionists. In fact, these are the people who would have spewed forth loads of anti-Jewish bile in the 150 year period before Reagan's election.

 

[moono]

What does a dunam of Palestine change hands for these days ? Or am I being naive in thinking that it's actually bought.


jonti

the fighter who travels the furthest to kill for his cause is most likely not on the right side.

Nice one. Space invaders beware.

 

[astronaut]

One can be Jewish without being Zionist, Zionist without being Jewish.

There are of course extremely different agendas followed by Jewish and non-Jewish Zionists.

Even though they follow a similar tactic of bringing Jews to Israel, their strategic goals are diametrically opposed.

It never ceased to amaze me why Jewish Zionists were allied with Christian Zionists, until it hit me as an example of extreme Machiavellianism.

 

[moono]

Don't overcomplicate it. It's about real-estate.

Malcolm Hedding, director of International Christian Embassy Jerusalem (ICEJ), the largest of the Zionist groups with branches in 55 countries. Biblical Zionism rejects any effort to read the Scriptures spiritually or allegorically, Mr. Hedding says. "There is no such thing as a Palestinian," he adds.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0707/p15s01-lire.html

 

[tangentlama]

Precisely, the Rapturists aren't Jewish but are fervent Zionists. In fact, these are the people who would have spewed forth loads of anti-Jewish bile in the 150 year period before Reagan's election.

The Ha'aretz talkback is full of their bile. They just swapped their tradition Xtian (not Christian) antisemitism from Jews to Muslims. They could be turned as easily again, against another ethnicity, religion or social group. Lessons from the 200 years of European ethnic cleansing and population transfers of muslims and jews (semites) (19th/20th),which culminated with the forced population transfers and wholesale industrial-scale slaughter of ethnic minorities and others from out of Europe have yet to sink home outside of Europe it seems.

 

[astronaut]

Don't overcomplicate it. It's about real-estate.

For Jewish Zionists, true, it is about real estate, but you cannot forget security either, from anti-Semitism and persecution (without the need for security, real estate would be irrelevant).

For Christian Zionists, it's solely about salvation (and consequently there is considerable anti-Semitism in the Christian Zionist plank).

There are some Jews who want to gain salvation through their Zionism, but they tend to be a very small minority.

 

[astronaut]

They just swapped their tradition Xtian (not Christian) antisemitism from Jews to Muslims.

I don't think they have -- they are still predominantly anti-Semitic -- they support Israel in order to achieve redemption from the 2nd coming -- and need Jews to convert to Christianity or die.

Their Islamophobia comes largely from Muslim opposition to Israel (suicide bombing, etc. -- acts which delay their redemption) and various incidents over the years -- Oil shocks, Iranian hostage situation, Gulf tensions in 1980s, Gulf War, 911.

 

[moono]

Astronaut;

but you cannot forget security either, from anti-Semitism and persecution (without the need for security, real estate would be irrelevant).

The old 'secure borders' chestnut needs revisiting. Borders are two-sided. An 'insecure border' is an 'insecure border' on both sides. This persistence for 'secure borders' for one side only is a crock.

Incidentally, 'anti-Semitic' is a misnomer. Please show respect for all Semites.

 

[astronaut]

The old 'secure borders' chestnut needs revisiting. Borders are two-sided. An 'insecure border' is an 'insecure border' on both sides. This persistence for 'secure borders' for one side only is a crock.

Did I mention the word "borders"?

Incidentally, 'anti-Semitic' is a misnomer. Please show respect for all Semites.

Anti-Semitism is indeed a misnomer -- it accurately refers to hatred of the Semitic languages.

However, over the past 120 years it have been taken to mean one thing: religious, ethnic, racial hatred of Jews.

 

[moono]

Did I mention the word "borders"?

It usually what Zionists have in mind when they shout 'security'.
This persistence for 'secure borders' for one side only is a crock.