Did Palestine really exist?

[rachamim18]

GMarthews:"Jews are the chief oppressors? You mean worse than the Janjaweed in Dafur? Indonesians in Timor? Russians in Chechnya? Wow, those Jews are pretty bad. Of course, you could have used Israelis or Zionists instead of "Jews" since so much of thise thread is devioted to semantics, but who is counting?

"Since Jews have so much money and know how." Looks like another one [sic].Here is a tip, when you start talking like that it could have negative connotations.

"Arabs become so desparate that they become 'suicide bombers'." That is such a bucnh of nonsense. How many blacks in Sudan have boarded jitneys in Khartoum and blown up an infant? Tutsis in Rwanda? What desparation anyway? Curfews? checkpoints? Closed border crossings? The PA does the same thing and no "Palestinian" has aimed a bomb belt at them. If you try to point at IDF incursions, etc. You must be sane enough to realise that such things would never happen if the militant violence ceased. Simply put, the "Palestinians" creat their own private hell. It ends when they want, when they choose.

"Building the 'Wall' and annexing the land." YES!!! All 5.4% of it! Had Israel ever wanted to truly annex either Gaza or the so called "West Bank," it could have done so at anytime in the almost 40 years it administered both places. Israel does not need it [even though both were part of the ancient Jewish homeland] OR want it. Demographics make it a no-brainer. the less than 6% being annexed is due to the "Palestinians" themselves. Their continued reluctance to negotiate combined with their failure to take any concrete steps to quell militant violence has led to this. Consider themselves lucky that Israel is not Jordan.

 

[rachamim18]

Garfield:"Zionists try to coopt the Holocaust." Um, no they do not. Had you even done a cursory check you would find that the Holocaust memorial/museum [Yad v'Shem] in Israel includes much documentation on all aspectsd of that horrible event.

"Holocaust World Remembrance Day is a Jewish holiday." WHAT??? Are you serious? WRONG. Check your facts.

"Israeli 'right wing' tries to manipulate the holocaust." Israel was not founded because of it. So then, what is your point?

When were blacks targeted in the Holocaust? Please explain.

"Rachel's Tomb is part of the Zionists' attempt to falsify the historical record." how so? Again, please explain.

Oh, if you wish to compare anything to Kristallnacht, even erroneously and atrociously comparing anything Jewish to it, try to at least spell it almost right.

"No people should have their homes continuously raided..." If they are harboring terrorists, terrorists tunnels, and so forth they most certainly should. IF they are mistakenly chosen to be raided, besides being able to seek redress via the Israeli courts, they should press upon their neighbours the need for a cessation in militant terror.

"The youth of both Israel and 'Palestine' one day tearing down the 'Barrier'." Yes, a beautiful sight. It can happen as soon as the "Palestinian" youth stop blowing up Israeli non-combatants.

"The 'Barrier' is comparable to S. Africa and the berlin Wall." What nonsense. Neither analogy [and you lumped them together] makes even remote sense.

 

[rachamim18]

Moono: For your benfit, I will remind you that I have never used the term "anti-Semitism." As an Arabic speaking Jew I am all too aware that Jews do not own the term Semite. Again, incorrect facts. Yawn.

Resolution 242 did not hinge on either translation as far as Israel is concerned although the foreign Ministry did use to use that to shut people u[p. It hinges on the legaql definition of the word "Occupation." Simple enough?


"Many Jews actively and openly oppose zionism." Drop the word "many" and you are finally correct. The number by all accounts is less than 4% of World Jewry.

"Many Israelis are Arabs and Muslims and the number is growing." Israel has 1.3 million muslims, 1.1 million of whom identify themselves as Arab. Yes, they are growing as people do have babies Moono. Oh I know what you mean, their numbers will over take Jewish Israelis, etc. Not likely. They constitute less than 18% of the total population. Even with their generally higher birthrate, they can never hope to catch up unless some calamity strikes Jewish Israelis.

"Scriptures are wrong." I guess it has not dawned on you that that Zionism does not have anything to do with any religion.

 

[kakuma]

its all a fucking construct. nationalsim is backward looking even if ti looking for nationalism with people who have never been granted a nation. it's still the same nationalistic shite

there is no palestine, there is no israel

it's just a bunch of people being fucked over. it's a fucking cause, nothing more, nothing less

it isn't 'the arabs' land anymore than it is 'the whites' or 'the jews' land, it's a piece of land. imagine you used these arguments in england you'd be a fucking nazi cunt. it's all about money

is it fuck arab land, if you are gonna get racial then it's actually whiteboys land cos they bought the fucker off the arabs

 

[rachamim18]

Whiteboys? Who? The Brits? If you are talking about Israelis you are totally ignorant.

 

[kakuma]

Whiteboys? Who? The Brits? If you are talking about Israelis you are totally ignorant.

nah you're the ignorant cunt

there is no jewish race, just like there is no white, black, arabic etc race

just like there is no 'one true faith'

its about a bunch of idiots cashing in on even bigger idiots. and this precious piece of territory is no less important than anywhere else in the world where people get evicted for shitty stupid fucking reasons

if noone made money off this sick fucking conflict then there would be no conflict,

 

[pk]

I checked 5 dictionaries (all with better reputations than Chambers), and ALL of them defined it (anti-semitism) as hatred specifically against Jews.

You are just a bullshitting idiot cunt.

Now fuck off.

 

[rachamim18]

Aside from your ignorant speech, you are correct in so much as that there is no jewish or Arab race. Both are caucasian. however, race does exist whether you choose to accept it or not.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Garfield: Suprisingly good post with the source of the phrase's history. Too bad you then messed it all up with the nonsense about "Zionists always trying to portray themselves as eternal victims." You think that "Palestinians" suffer without a state? They have only considered themsleves a people for a few decades. Imagine Jews who have been [mostly] stateless since the Roman era. I suggest you do a bit of research about the Jews treatment in every nation they traveled to, with the exception of ancient China.

i ddidn't say jews tho did i you even quoted what i did say there is a huge difference between a zionist and a jew..... which is much evidenced in the plain fact that zionism is not the common default or indeed representative of the worlds jewry...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Garfield:"Zionists try to coopt the Holocaust." Um, no they do not. Had you even done a cursory check you would find that the Holocaust memorial/museum [Yad v'Shem] in Israel includes much documentation on all aspectsd of that horrible event.

"Holocaust World Remembrance Day is a Jewish holiday." WHAT??? Are you serious? WRONG. Check your facts.

no you check your facts then when you find you are wrong come back and apologise...

"Israeli 'right wing' tries to manipulate the holocaust." Israel was not founded because of it. So then, what is your point?

it plays the victim card... therefore negiating as you are attempting to do the rights of the palestinians... end of.

When were blacks targeted in the Holocaust? Please explain.

again do your histroy reasearch propperly and then come back and apologise, tho this one is a bit more obsure, i'll admit... hint read mein kamp and consider the term mulatto...

"Rachel's Tomb is part of the Zionists' attempt to falsify the historical record." how so? Again, please explain.

again you go look things up and come back, i'm not doing your research for you, the points were made specifically because they are verifable and can be backed up by many independant sources...

Oh, if you wish to compare anything to Kristallnacht, even erroneously and atrociously comparing anything Jewish to it, try to at least spell it almost right.

i'm not germany and am dyslexic i'm not going to look up obsure words in another language and stop the flow of my posts if you can at least understnad it then it doesn't matter how it's spelt does it, more over the continued shattering of palestinian homes is a direct mirror of kristalnacth.. again you are wrong...

"No people should have their homes continuously raided..." If they are harboring terrorists, terrorists tunnels, and so forth they most certainly should. IF they are mistakenly chosen to be raided, besides being able to seek redress via the Israeli courts, they should press upon their neighbours the need for a cessation in militant terror.

what aload of bollocks 'no human should fear soidlers walking into their home ... period... end of disscussion... clearly you have never been to salfet...

"The youth of both Israel and 'Palestine' one day tearing down the 'Barrier'." Yes, a beautiful sight. It can happen as soon as the "Palestinian" youth stop blowing up Israeli non-combatants.

say that again an swap the words...

"The 'Barrier' is comparable to S. Africa and the berlin Wall." What nonsense. Neither analogy [and you lumped them together] makes even remote sense.

because you are deficent in some way.... sorry but that can be the only explaination...

I do my research, i spend time verifying it cross refferencing becuase this is something i care deeply about you on the other hand do not it's only a belife system you have constructed around your own inaccurate informaiton...
bully for you i couldn't care less tbh, do your research and then come back and argue otherwise i will entertain you no longer...

so either do your research propperly or cease responding to me... gettit...

 

[nino_savatte]

Aside from your ignorant speech, you are correct in so much as that there is no jewish or Arab race. Both are caucasian. however, race does exist whether you choose to accept it or not.

Both are "caucasian"? Now I know you're a bullshitter. Race exists for you because it serves a purpose for you: to justify your ethnic superiority over others.

You aren't Jewish at all - are you?

 

[Jonti]

race does exist whether you choose to accept it or not

Nope.

This from Homo sapiens: The Modern Human

"Our species, Homo sapiens, is the only living species in the Homo genus. (Present-day man is actually a member of subspecies sapiens--total name Homo sapiens sapiens--but we share all features with the main species). Homo sapiens are characterized by bipedal posture, excellent eyesight, and a very large brain that allows for innovative thought and problem-solving capabilities. The head of a Homo sapiens is larger than other primates because the skull needs room to enclose this large brain. Humans also have a highly developed nervous system and strong senses. Especially important is depth perception (stereoscopic vision), made possible because their eyes are located near each other. Like other apes, humans have opposable thumbs and nails on their fingers, but they lack tails. The upper legs of a human have very strong muscles allowing it to stand upright. A curve in the spine near the lower back also allows upright posture because the center of gravity of a human is directly over the pelvis."


eta: Sorry, should have made it clear that sub-species and race are just different terms for the same idea.

 

[astronaut]

You are just a bullshitting idiot cunt.

Now fuck off.

Wow, what a torrent of abuse. I must be right.

 

[moono]

Astronaut;

I must be right.

Yes, that's already been established , even through your Dumpty disguise.




.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wow, what a torrent of abuse. I must be right.

And within that self-belief lies your problem.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Both are "caucasian"? Now I know you're a bullshitter. Race exists for you because it serves a purpose for you: to justify your ethnic superiority over others.

You aren't Jewish at all - are you?

personally this all seems to be going down the route the stratigist went down beofre admitting they are actually a right wing nutjob trying to stur up hatred for jews, with their actions...

it's proably another of that ilk as i have suspected for some time...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Wow, what a torrent of abuse. I must be right.

yes of course you are very right i'd say a little to the left of george bush but farther in that tony bliar as right goes...

you couldn't possibly mean correct could you...

 

[rachamim18]

Garfield:"Mein Kamph" was a camp roster. You are continunally failing to provide requested facts to back up your argument. Forgive me for being [resumptuous but you are clearly taking content offof anti- Israeli/pro- "Palestinian" sites. Not only are you not attributing it, but you are failing to even attempt to corroborate your so called "facts."


Again, please provide some data on blacks not only being killed during the Holocaust, but even being targeted.

Please explain how "Rachel's Tomb" is being manipulated by the Zionists.

"Kristallnacht" is not obscure at all. Even without its popular, historical usage, it is simply, literally "Night of Glass." If you are going to use it, you should know what it is , which most would argue includes its spelling.

Using it an an analogy to describe Israeli demolition of Arab homes in Gaza and the so called "West Bank" is morally reprehensible, as well as plain incorrect. The German action a loosely organised show of force after a Zionist enraged because of the Nazis racist policies assasinated a Nazi official. Civilains, accompanied by plain clothse state security, targeted Jewish buisssneses as well as a small amount of Jewish homes. The Jews targeted were not related to the assasin.

Arab homes, at this point and time, are targeted for one of two reasons. I] they are illegaly built, out of code, and without permits...sometimes on land that does not legally belong to the builder. II] Because the house was directly used in an illegal act. In the West governments almost always do the same thing on both counts.

The two events have nothing at all in common. Anyway, both Jew and Arab deserve each of their histories to be discussed and considered in their own unqie and special way. You cheapen both events my misussing them.

Who said "no Arab fears the IDF entering their homes? " Certainly not me. I can guarantee you though that almost to the last man, the IDF fear it far greater. However,it has to be done.

"Deficiency." OK, then explain how the "Barrier" is alot like both the Berlin Wall and Apartheid.

The nonsense about you not being able to be bothered is a cop out. You say you spend time cross referencing? From what kind of sources? Do you use like minded, partisan sources to confirm your first ideas which are themself the [rodiuct pf partisan sources?Then you use my words almost vwerbatim to challenge me to research. Brillant [sic].

Look, I have provided fact after fact. To date, I have yet to see you provide one corrorated [via mainstream sources] fact to challenge ANY of them. I have been researching the subjects here my entire life. I am a Jew, and I am an Israeli. That does not make me correct or even more knowledgeable really. However, it does pretty much prove that I have looked at it hard. You on the other hand are a person with no connection to the dynamic, nor anything at stake. This does not precluse you from being interested ibn it but it does leave room for wonder, especially when you NEVER PROVIDE CORROBORATED facts!

Additionally, I will respond to you when I choose, as is my right as a member of this forum. It is your right as well to put me on ignore, etc. I do not respond to you for you per se since thats is increasingly an exercise in futility. Instead I try and take your "points" apart for others who just might actually give a damn about learning or challenging their minds.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: First you claim that I have a "superiority complex" about my ethnicity, and then in the same post challenge me on being Jewish. Yerp, par for the course.

Jonti: Race has nothing to do with specieis. It is not biologically categorised, but rather anthropologically.

Garfield: So I am racist pretending to be Jewish to inspire anti-Jewish hatred? Yep. I am so dedicated to it that I am completely fluent in Hebrew, Yiddish, and Ladino as well as having 23 years in the IDF. You know, I believe in going all out. How did you figure me out?

 

[moono]

Tell me about the killing zones.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

first of all please note this is the last time i can be arsed to do rach research for him...

http://social.chass.ncsu.edu/Jouvert/v1i2/Delroy.htm
http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/African.htm
http://www.black-history-month.co.uk/articles/holocaust_victims.html
http://www.holocaust-history.org/questions/blacks.shtml
there's even a book on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0963129341/103-2393712-3634250?v=glance&n=283155

whilst doing this i cam accross this site which is some kind of judeophobic it's the jews what did it nut job site....

however ignoring the outragious nature of the content for a second it's a fantastic mirror to rach's commentary on urban if we remove the word jew and replace it as palestinian ....

http : //judicial-inc.biz/Broomberg. htm
<link broken cos the site is from scum bags...>

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Garfield: So I am racist pretending to be Jewish to inspire anti-Jewish hatred? Yep. I am so dedicated to it that I am completely fluent in Hebrew, Yiddish, and Ladino as well as having 23 years in the IDF. You know, I believe in going all out. How did you figure me out?

hmm a social construct who'd admit it when intially caught... yeah like thats going to happen ... i have neither time or the energy to devote to unmasking you...

really stop replying to me until you can do your own bloody research...

 

[rachamim18]

Moono: What would you like to know? Basically, around every IDF position there is a specific radius that is considered the point of no return. The radius depends on the specific position and context.. For example, when I served in Gaza in 1987 it was 40 meters on the other wide of the access road that led to our position. The total was almost 100 meters from the outer perimeter and that was a very tough one because most of southern Gaza is highly urbanised.

 

[Jonti]

Race has nothing to do with specieis. It is not biologically categorised, but rather anthropologically.

You just make stuff up as you go along. Are you being paid to astroturf?

Race is a synonym for sub-species. It is a biological category. Many species can be divided into races or subspecies.

But there is no such thing as a race or sub-species when it comes to the scientific study of Man (anthropology) because there is only one living sub-species of Humans (Homo sapiens), and that is the sub-species or race known to anthropologists, biologists and science generally as fully modern humans, or Home sapiens sapiens.

And here's my source: Homo sapiens: The Modern Human

 

[rachamim18]

Garfeild: I already knew about the sterilisation. you implied that they ere at least interred, if not actually exterminated. Again, failed to prove. By the way, you are not doing "my research." You are proving your own fringe ideas. If they were a part of mainstream thought it would not be neccessary. Maybe it is a communication problem on your part. As in thinking sterilisation of a couple of hundred blacks living in the rhineland compares [numerically] with the extermination of millions.


As for your "social construct," sounds as if you need to get out more. Get a hobby, make some friends, your fantasy life is speeping into your day to day activities.

Jonti: Actually, I AM Astronaut. When I do not take my meds it gets that way. I am also not really Jewish and certainly not Israeli [perish the thought].


Now, you are talking about PHYSICAL ANthROPOLOGY. Try the concept of culture and how it applies to race. Listen, I can talk about this all day and night, my degree is a subdiscipline. Ill try and offer some nice sources shortly, if I ever finish this forum and the rest I commit to.

 

[Jonti]

... Actually, I AM Astronaut. When I do not take my meds it gets that way. I am also not really Jewish and certainly not Israeli [perish the thought]...Try the concept of culture and how it applies to race.

You can change your culture. Try it sometime.

 

[Jonti]

my degree is a subdiscipline

I see you're maintaining the usual quality of your posts. But you didn't answer the question: Are you being paid to astroturf?

 

[rachamim18]

Jonti: Yes, cyulture is interchangable. Quite right. What do you mean by "astroturf?" Do you mean, is "Astronaut paying me?" Why would he/she pay me?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Garfeild: I already knew about the sterilisation. you implied that they ere at least interred, if not actually exterminated. Again, failed to prove. By the way, you are not doing "my research." You are proving your own fringe ideas. If they were a part of mainstream thought it would not be neccessary. Maybe it is a communication problem on your part. As in thinking sterilisation of a couple of hundred blacks living in the rhineland compares [numerically] with the extermination of millions.

i didn't compare love i merely mention the zionist attidue of trying to exclusivise the holocaust, it's you whose attempting to draw comparision...

if you knew already about the blacks killed and sterilised why did you say...

Again, please provide some data on blacks not only being killed during the Holocaust, but even being targeted.

see you aren't even consistant on the same fucking page of a thread let alone in your so called established facts...

now fuck off, do your research and for fucks sake don't respond to me until you have... i really don't have time to school and adolesent mind with a personality defiect such as yours...

As for your "social construct," sounds as if you need to get out more. Get a hobby, make some friends, your fantasy life is speeping into your day to day activities.

as for this... thanky ou for the th grade pop psych 101 i reffer you to my previous comments...

 

[Jonti]

You just make stuff up as you go along. Are you being paid to astroturf?

... What do you mean by "astroturf?" Do you mean, is "Astronaut paying me?" Why would he/she pay me?

Astroturf.

I guess it's been a long time since you were back home in the States, or followed any US poliics or anything.

You are so busted.