Did Palestine really exist?
- Thread starter Gmart
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GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
semites are the indiginious peoples though, which also contained others who were not from the tribe of judiea, how can you support therefore the reduction of rights for indignious peoples, isn't that blatent hypocrasy...rachamim18 said:
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
with out being picky there's no semite gene either, technically there's little geneatic difference between all humans, fuck it there's a 96% similarity of genes with pigs...moono said:
Gmart
Well-Known Member
Isn't this like saying that there is no physical characteristic for the Asians? Well there is, their eyes have a double eyelid which is apparent to all.
The same goes for the Jews. They have a big nose and dark curly hair in a Jew like way. Physical similarities are always the basis of race and just because we are 96% the same as pig is surely not relevant?
Also didn't they find a tribe in Africa who were the lost tribe of Israel? Didn't they prove it through genetics?
Ah yes the Beta Israel here is the link.
The same goes for the Jews. They have a big nose and dark curly hair in a Jew like way. Physical similarities are always the basis of race and just because we are 96% the same as pig is surely not relevant?
Also didn't they find a tribe in Africa who were the lost tribe of Israel? Didn't they prove it through genetics?
Ah yes the Beta Israel here is the link.
'Semites' are a group of peoples, aren't they, and the group includes Hebrews and Arabs. Genetic mapping has located them and plotted their movements over time.
We could do with fewer 'racial' divides, not more. The Zionist insistence upon a 'race' for jews is designed to give credence to their claim for an acceptable apartheid. Fuck that.
Lol. There are as many exceptions as there are stereotypes, Art Garfunkel, ( blonde ) Sammy Davis Jnr.,(Black) Bob Dylan ( now Christian ) to name a recognisable few. Religions don't have physical characteristics and 'Jewish' is a religion, a set of beliefs, like Mohammedism. Muslims can be all colours and creeds, just like Jews, and don't conform to the Arab stereotype either.
When Rachamim states;
he is obviously attempting to stake an impossible claim by creating a synthetic divide. The fact that there are plenty of Jewish Arabs about today illustrates how stupid his claim is. ( yet they find him suitable to kit out with weapons and an IOF uniform )
I maintain that, essentially, the entire conflict is territorial. History, scriptures, genetics, all are warped and debased in the disgusting and bloody scramble for turf.
Moono: Yes, both Jew and Arab are Semites. However they are each unique in culture and to a degree genetically as well. Semite is alabel applied to speakers of Sentiic languages. Who claimed that Jews were a rrace? Please, for the sake fo this thread, forum, and your integrity, demonstrate a bit of maturity. I realise you are a teen but that is no excuse.
When have Zionists EVER claimed that Jews were a race? Wrong again.
"Jews are a religion." Judaisim is a religion, Jews are a culture and a people. Ever heard of a Buddhist genetic disease Moono?
"Plenty of Jewish Arabs." Um, as a Jew with roots in Syria and Israel [among other places] I can offer that you haven't the faintest clue. In fact, were you to say that to almost all Mizrachim/Sephardim, you would probably risk a beating or at least a face full of spittle. Try walking through projects in Hatikvah and spouting that gibberish [but first name me your beneficiary].
Garfield: No, Semites were not indigenous, JEWS [who are a PATICULAR Semitic people] were. Yes, minorities always lived among us but those groups are extinct [with the exception of Samaritans who were related to us anyway]. Some like the Edomi were converted to our faith and joined with us, Others like the majority of tribes known collectively as Canaanites died out.
Arabs are NOT indigenous. They are from Arabia [of course] and for the most part only have less than 150 years on the land. I could go over lists of so called "Palestinian" villages and humlas and tell you name by name their origin and approximate year of arrival on that land. They are interlopers but never the less, entitled to share the land. there is more than enough for two nations. Since Osolo I alone over 300,000 Arabs from surrounding nations illegaly migratedinto the so called "Territories" and this is not a new trend. In one three year period during the early 30s, 30,000 Arabs came from one area of Syria, etc., etc.
If you are truly interested in genetics, please refer to Y Chromosomal studies and other gene haplotype research. You will find soem interesting things about Jews that just might reshape how you look at the situation.
GMathews: "Big nose and dark curly hair." Do yourself a favor, look at soem photos from Israel. You could even go to Bluelight and see what I look like. You will be suprised. There is no such thing as a " Jewish look." We come in all colors, all physical types. In my family we have snow white to ebony black and that is without converts, etc. When you factod in the new gheneration it "anything goes" [I cannot wait to see what my current wifes' babies will look like].
The tribe you are talking about are the "Lemba," from S. Africa and they do have Jewish roots, as does a tribe in Mynamarr [burma]. Pathan from Afghanistan/Pakistan also claim that heritage but as of late no genetic proof exists.
Beta Israel are a different subject. They are directly descended from the Tribe of Dan. Their roots in Ethiopia predate the dispersal of the Kingdom of Israel when the northern Tribes disappeared [assimilated]. Males from the Tribe of Dan were employed by Egyptian pahroes as mercenaries in Nubia among other places. They had a fortress on an islet in the Nile. They became well established and as many Jews do, took non-Jewish wives after having them convert. With the disintegration of the northern Kingdom they lost contact with Jewry yet cherished their faith and culture and maintained their Jewish identity.
They grew in numbers, naturally and via conversion [sometimes forced] until they were so strong that they gained control of a significant area and established an independant Jewish Kingdom in the highlands of Ethiopia. They are actually comprised of two communities today, the Yisroel, and the Mura. The Mura are descended from Yisroel who were forced to convert to Christianity [often at sword point], sometimes as long as 300 years ago. Both are consiudered Jews as almost all Mura, who remianed crypto-Jews, have reverted to Judiasim [despite many of their women having crosses tatooed onto their foreheads].
When have Zionists EVER claimed that Jews were a race? Wrong again.
"Jews are a religion." Judaisim is a religion, Jews are a culture and a people. Ever heard of a Buddhist genetic disease Moono?
"Plenty of Jewish Arabs." Um, as a Jew with roots in Syria and Israel [among other places] I can offer that you haven't the faintest clue. In fact, were you to say that to almost all Mizrachim/Sephardim, you would probably risk a beating or at least a face full of spittle. Try walking through projects in Hatikvah and spouting that gibberish [but first name me your beneficiary].
Garfield: No, Semites were not indigenous, JEWS [who are a PATICULAR Semitic people] were. Yes, minorities always lived among us but those groups are extinct [with the exception of Samaritans who were related to us anyway]. Some like the Edomi were converted to our faith and joined with us, Others like the majority of tribes known collectively as Canaanites died out.
Arabs are NOT indigenous. They are from Arabia [of course] and for the most part only have less than 150 years on the land. I could go over lists of so called "Palestinian" villages and humlas and tell you name by name their origin and approximate year of arrival on that land. They are interlopers but never the less, entitled to share the land. there is more than enough for two nations. Since Osolo I alone over 300,000 Arabs from surrounding nations illegaly migratedinto the so called "Territories" and this is not a new trend. In one three year period during the early 30s, 30,000 Arabs came from one area of Syria, etc., etc.
If you are truly interested in genetics, please refer to Y Chromosomal studies and other gene haplotype research. You will find soem interesting things about Jews that just might reshape how you look at the situation.
GMathews: "Big nose and dark curly hair." Do yourself a favor, look at soem photos from Israel. You could even go to Bluelight and see what I look like. You will be suprised. There is no such thing as a " Jewish look." We come in all colors, all physical types. In my family we have snow white to ebony black and that is without converts, etc. When you factod in the new gheneration it "anything goes" [I cannot wait to see what my current wifes' babies will look like].
The tribe you are talking about are the "Lemba," from S. Africa and they do have Jewish roots, as does a tribe in Mynamarr [burma]. Pathan from Afghanistan/Pakistan also claim that heritage but as of late no genetic proof exists.
Beta Israel are a different subject. They are directly descended from the Tribe of Dan. Their roots in Ethiopia predate the dispersal of the Kingdom of Israel when the northern Tribes disappeared [assimilated]. Males from the Tribe of Dan were employed by Egyptian pahroes as mercenaries in Nubia among other places. They had a fortress on an islet in the Nile. They became well established and as many Jews do, took non-Jewish wives after having them convert. With the disintegration of the northern Kingdom they lost contact with Jewry yet cherished their faith and culture and maintained their Jewish identity.
They grew in numbers, naturally and via conversion [sometimes forced] until they were so strong that they gained control of a significant area and established an independant Jewish Kingdom in the highlands of Ethiopia. They are actually comprised of two communities today, the Yisroel, and the Mura. The Mura are descended from Yisroel who were forced to convert to Christianity [often at sword point], sometimes as long as 300 years ago. Both are consiudered Jews as almost all Mura, who remianed crypto-Jews, have reverted to Judiasim [despite many of their women having crosses tatooed onto their foreheads].
Outside of 9 intellectuals, self styled Mizrachi activists, there are no people calling themselves such a nonsensical label. If you like that sort of thing, Ella Shohat, Eli Avraham, Oren Yiftachel, Yehudah Shenhav, P'nia Motzfati [my first cousin], and Ella Habiba Shofat are all good names to look at.
As I said many times, Mizrachim are the most ardent right wing of all Israelis [excepting extremists of course].
"Prior to the term 'Mizrachi." The term si at least 400 years old. The term "Arab Jews" means nothing. Like many labels, it was coined by outsiders. Those of use with roots in Arab lands would be horrified [any I have known] to be equated with Arabs. We are very proud of our heritage.
As I said many times, Mizrachim are the most ardent right wing of all Israelis [excepting extremists of course].
"Prior to the term 'Mizrachi." The term si at least 400 years old. The term "Arab Jews" means nothing. Like many labels, it was coined by outsiders. Those of use with roots in Arab lands would be horrified [any I have known] to be equated with Arabs. We are very proud of our heritage.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
which is it then semities are indignious or jews are a race?rachamim18 said:
one is factually correct the other was a myth created by nazis in the 1930's to justify seperating them from the aryan race.... think on dumbass which philiophy you follow...
Gmart
Well-Known Member
This thread has ample proof that Palestine existed prior to the invasion of Israel, though there was/is a lot of space.
Thus these people should have been taken into account when setting up a 'secular' state of Israel.
Rachamin seems unable to accept this basic fact, and thus it seems to colour his well-informed opinion.
I live in hope that he will at some time accept a less extreme and unreasonable position and work his way, hopefully with the Israelis nation towards a compromise which is truly peaceful and secular.
Thus these people should have been taken into account when setting up a 'secular' state of Israel.
Rachamin seems unable to accept this basic fact, and thus it seems to colour his well-informed opinion.
I live in hope that he will at some time accept a less extreme and unreasonable position and work his way, hopefully with the Israelis nation towards a compromise which is truly peaceful and secular.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Not reading (I can only tolerate so muich apologism for ongoing genocide from Rach) but I have a lovely reprint of a poster, by Franz Krausz, "Visit Palestine", 1936. Issued by the Tourist Development Association of Palestine.
Loads more on google images:
So yeah, in the 1930s it was definitely known as Palestine and has been ever since, even if a section is popularly referred to as Israel (originally a philosphical concept in Judaism, not a physical location).
Loads more on google images:
So yeah, in the 1930s it was definitely known as Palestine and has been ever since, even if a section is popularly referred to as Israel (originally a philosphical concept in Judaism, not a physical location).
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Never got to answer Garfield's question: Jews are not a race, Semites ARE indigenous. Jews were the Semites. Arabs, also Semitic, did not enter history until just prior to the Common Era. Hoped it cleas it up for him/her.
GMarthews: "Proof that 'Palestine' existed prior to Israel, but there was alot of space." Um, no it does not. A nation is pretty specific. "Palestinians" did not have one, ever. The term "Palestinian" was all inclusive until 48 and had nothing to do with Arabs. Only when Mandate Jews became Israelis in 48 did the Arabs begin the process of coopting that label.
The word itself was applied by the Romans, almost 2,000 years ago to belittle the indigenous inhabitants, Jews, who had just been beaten in a bloody and costly 300 year fight for reestablishment of their ancient (even then) nation. It was the Latinisation of the word "Phillistine." the Phillistines were rightly viewed by the Romans as the age old enemies of the Jewish People.
Indeed, it was "Phillistines" among others whom the Jews found when they began drifting there. The Phillistines were a proto-Greek civilisation originally from Crete, part of the Mycaenean Culture. They were not Semites. Mostly they are referred to as Phoenicians or Sea People (generic term applied to Aegean groups who actually formed a few different civilisations in that section of the Med Basin).
The Arabs first came to that land to settle, not in their 22 year period of sovereignity in the form of the Khalifa, but for the most part during the Ottoman Era. A small number of indigenous people, who had once been Jews but had adapted other guises over the centuries DID convert to Islam and take on Arab identity. This was exceedingly rare.
How is believing in a 2 State Solution extreme?
Almost all were Hejaz natives who speech was indistinct from other Arabs, cuisine was not unique, nor its customs, nor did they have a flag, or even a regional identity until at least 1834 (Nablus Riots).Even after 1834 most had no concept of any national idenity under any label until just prior to WWI. At that point intelelctuals among them began assuming the label of "Southern Syrian." They saw themselves as Syrians and sought confederation with Greater Syria.
Not until 48 did it really begin and still Israel has always accepted the premise of yet anoither Arab State, one that would live in tandem with ISrael. It has only been the Arabs that have refused.
GMarthews: "Proof that 'Palestine' existed prior to Israel, but there was alot of space." Um, no it does not. A nation is pretty specific. "Palestinians" did not have one, ever. The term "Palestinian" was all inclusive until 48 and had nothing to do with Arabs. Only when Mandate Jews became Israelis in 48 did the Arabs begin the process of coopting that label.
The word itself was applied by the Romans, almost 2,000 years ago to belittle the indigenous inhabitants, Jews, who had just been beaten in a bloody and costly 300 year fight for reestablishment of their ancient (even then) nation. It was the Latinisation of the word "Phillistine." the Phillistines were rightly viewed by the Romans as the age old enemies of the Jewish People.
Indeed, it was "Phillistines" among others whom the Jews found when they began drifting there. The Phillistines were a proto-Greek civilisation originally from Crete, part of the Mycaenean Culture. They were not Semites. Mostly they are referred to as Phoenicians or Sea People (generic term applied to Aegean groups who actually formed a few different civilisations in that section of the Med Basin).
The Arabs first came to that land to settle, not in their 22 year period of sovereignity in the form of the Khalifa, but for the most part during the Ottoman Era. A small number of indigenous people, who had once been Jews but had adapted other guises over the centuries DID convert to Islam and take on Arab identity. This was exceedingly rare.
How is believing in a 2 State Solution extreme?
Almost all were Hejaz natives who speech was indistinct from other Arabs, cuisine was not unique, nor its customs, nor did they have a flag, or even a regional identity until at least 1834 (Nablus Riots).Even after 1834 most had no concept of any national idenity under any label until just prior to WWI. At that point intelelctuals among them began assuming the label of "Southern Syrian." They saw themselves as Syrians and sought confederation with Greater Syria.
Not until 48 did it really begin and still Israel has always accepted the premise of yet anoither Arab State, one that would live in tandem with ISrael. It has only been the Arabs that have refused.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Is this Rach claiming that people don't exist until and unless they have a state to their name; so Israelis were as fictitious until 1947 as he alleges the Palestinians to be; except they're not because they've been a tiny minority in the land since Isaac's wife sprogged their first kid.
He's a holocaust denier and apologist for genocide; you have to expect his thinking to be a little muddled at times.
He's a holocaust denier and apologist for genocide; you have to expect his thinking to be a little muddled at times.
YMU:The land was known as "Palestine" for 2000 years. That is not an issue., who said otherwise? I did and do say that there was NEVER such a nation. It was a name , given by Romans, to gall Jews whom they had just beaten down.
Nice poster but my dad's nationality was "Palestinian." Having been born there before Independance, the Brits listed it as such. In reality though, it means nothing because no such placed ever exsted.
I find it most curious that you used that blurb in your most recent post. It is pro-Zionist. Why would you use it?
Nice poster but my dad's nationality was "Palestinian." Having been born there before Independance, the Brits listed it as such. In reality though, it means nothing because no such placed ever exsted.
I find it most curious that you used that blurb in your most recent post. It is pro-Zionist. Why would you use it?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I know Rach. Zionist propaganda using the real name of the place; Palestine, inhabited by Palestinians - Palestinian Arabs, be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Druze or Bedouin. Brothers until the European genocidal colonialists arrived to establish Little Europe in the desert.
"When did you come to Israel?"
"I didn't; Israel came to me."
"When did you come to Israel?"
"I didn't; Israel came to me."
rachamim18 said:
In your dreams it is. Learn to write basic Arabic before upgrading yourself to an online teacher.
I didn't take the time to read all of this thread (most certainly it contains the usual claim that the Jews "were there first" etc.. etc... Clearly none of them ever read Genesis.)
The poll is rubbish. It should have asked: Who lived there and called it their homeland before they and their land got colonized by the Zionists.
salaam.
Aldeberan: It is a contraction of two words, Party of G-D.Contractions are considered one word, even in Arabic.
I believe you had an issue with spelling as well about a month ago. Too bad you only managed to be civil then. Especially sad was the fact that you saw fit to comment on other issues in the thread while admitting in the next breath that you have not read the thread. Here is a hint, you should actually read it because then you might feel like not making that statement about Genesis.
YMU: Again, take issue with the post, not the poster. You have a problem keeping focused. I manage to offer commentary without trying to belittle you. Perhapos you might do the same.
I believe you had an issue with spelling as well about a month ago. Too bad you only managed to be civil then. Especially sad was the fact that you saw fit to comment on other issues in the thread while admitting in the next breath that you have not read the thread. Here is a hint, you should actually read it because then you might feel like not making that statement about Genesis.
YMU: Again, take issue with the post, not the poster. You have a problem keeping focused. I manage to offer commentary without trying to belittle you. Perhapos you might do the same.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
FridgeMagnet said:
Example: the British taking over the area from the Ottoman Turks.
YMU: Again, this is not a pissing contest, stick to subjects not what you imagine me to be as a person,etc.
One thing though you should remember, Hebrew predates Arabic by a couple of thousand years. They did not even have a written lanaguage until the Islamic Advent. I am a native Arabic speaker because it, not Hebrew, is my first language.
Johnny: You know, I find one of life's great ironies to be that the same People who created this huge mess is the same nation whose people clamor for boycotts of Israel,etc. Had the UK minded its own ps and qs this probably would not be happening one way or the other. Have to love the UK.
One thing though you should remember, Hebrew predates Arabic by a couple of thousand years. They did not even have a written lanaguage until the Islamic Advent. I am a native Arabic speaker because it, not Hebrew, is my first language.
Johnny: You know, I find one of life's great ironies to be that the same People who created this huge mess is the same nation whose people clamor for boycotts of Israel,etc. Had the UK minded its own ps and qs this probably would not be happening one way or the other. Have to love the UK.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
C'mon now, Rach. You know it hadn't been spoken since ancient times except as part of religious rituals; it was not usable as a modern language and had to be reinvented almost from scratch when it was chosen in favour of Yiddish as the national language. Reinvented with an incredibly simple grammatical structure and borrowed words from Arabic. I mean, a whole "nation" had to learn it overnight - even if for most of them it remains their 2nd language. 
rachamim18 said:
Seriously. A child of the first year primary school knows better.
The reason of the "u" ending of hizb in the oral form is because hizb stands as first substantive in a stand-alone two-substantives idaafa, thus carries the definite nominative case, which then takes up its role as binding vowel in the spoken form.
Not because it is "a contraction and hence considered one word" (and apart from the fact that "o" doesn't exist and hizb is written with an i, a reason why your insistance on hezbollah spelling proves you have no clue).
By the way: If you are so out on making a fool of yourself, do not blame me for making it visible to everyone reading your nonsense. Thank you.
My comment on Genesis stands as it is. (Read Genesis.)
salaam.
rachamim18 said:
Don't let me laugh (again) Just because there wasn't a standarized written form of Arabic (derived from the Quraysh dialect to begin with) the Arabic language didn't "exist" and nobody could read and write?
Please elaborate mr. self-proclaimed linguist what my ancestors then spoke and wrote on the Arabian peninsula in the pre-islamic millenia? Hebrew perhaps?
Sure.
salaam.
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