Did Palestine really exist?

[ViolentPanda]

This would be the Celtic culture that rach tells us "doesn't exist".

Yep. That's the one.

 

[Gmart]

So we're agreed then, Palestine did exist and Israel invaded it, cool!!

Now what are the Israelis going to do to resolve the problem then caused?

 

[nino_savatte]

So we're agreed then, Palestine did exist and Israel invaded it, cool!!

Now what are the Israelis going to do to resolve the problem then caused?

Aye, Israel was literally carved out of Palestine by force. It was case of "we'll have this coastal bit here and the rest of you can squeeze into that small corner over there".

 

[rachamim18]

From the desk of a patronising swine...

Panda: The Ukranians were the worst of the lot. You say that your Jewish family considered the Ukraine their home? You are right, who am I to challenge that. I mean, history means nothing to you. If you look at your atlas you'll see that Trans-Diniester [my maternal family's main origin in Europe] you will find that it is actually connected to the Ukraine. I am well aware of thr Ukranian attitudes towards Jews.

I have not kept kosher since I entered the army. In a way I am glad that the cahredi NAHAL battalion had not been formed yet. I have never had the soup with the knuckle but rather with three ytpes of pork sausage. Good eating.


Yes, they do have their own dialect which is very, very interesting

RedJezza: Arabs for 4000 years? WRONG. Jews have existed for at least 4000 years. Arabs only entered history a hundred odd years before the Common Era [i.e. bit over 2000]


ZAMB: With all due respect to the Oxford, Assyrians arer descended from male Greeks with Alexaner the Great's army who intermarried with local women. The emthicity , albeit tiny, is still viable. They have unique customs and alot of Greek peppers their Arabic. I have not heard them classified as Semitic. I will look into it more.

Phoenicians were also a Greek people.


Nino:There are Celtic inluences which is a whole lot different than a viable culture.

GMarthews: Um, no, WE are certainly NOT in agreement. How could Israelis invade themselves?

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino:There are Celtic inluences which is a whole lot different than a viable culture.

No, there is a Celtic, or rather there are Celtic cultures that exist and that thrive. Perhaps your eye (you only appear to have one) is closed to that reality.

You do not have a monopoly on culture; nor is yours the only culture to have a near unbroken link with antiquity.

 

[Gmart]

GMarthews: Um, no, WE are certainly NOT in agreement. How could Israelis invade themselves?

I didn't mean you, i meant reasonable people, as in open to reason. There were certainly Jews there as no one denies, there were a few germans in Poland, did Hitler have the right to invade? Of course not. And i don't expect you to be open enough to acknowledge being wrong because to do so would i suspect be too much for you. I respect your research though you seem to start with your existing ideas and try and find proof for them, rather than letting the argument fall as it will. The facts are really quite simple, as most people recognise here. The Israelis have invaded the land and are continuing to take more through the wall they have decided to force upon the Palestinians which takes yet more land.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: Qualify your claim. Describe some of them briefly. How many places on earth have Celtic as its first language? Describe Celtic cuisine? Living customs? Any uniqe traits?

Among other cultures that are ancient: Indian and Han Chinese. See, correctly stating that Jews have an ancient culture is not ethnocentric at all. It is simply factual.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: Qualify your claim. Describe some of them briefly. How many places on earth have Celtic as its first language? Describe Celtic cuisine? Living customs? Any uniqe traits?

Among other cultures that are ancient: Indian and Han Chinese. See, correctly stating that Jews have an ancient culture is not ethnocentric at all. It is simply factual.

I see you're behaving in typical fashion: the ethnocentrically narrow perception of all things cultural. Tell you what, how about you do your own fucking research for a change? I don't have to justify or qualify anything to someone who quite clearly isn't prepared to do the same thing.

Culture? You don't know the meaning of the word.

Btw, there is no such language as "Celtic", the languages are known by a variety of names....and besides, Modern Hebrew isn't that auld - is it? I don't suppose you speak ancient Hebrew by any chance? After all, you did say you spoke Spanish better than English. You must have been some kind of child prodigy to be digging tunnels for a living.

 

[nino_savatte]

I say we drop r18 in the middle of the Gaeltacht or Gàidhealtachd and see how he gets on.

I get the feeling we've had this 'conversation' before.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Panda: The Ukranians were the worst of the lot. You say that your Jewish family considered the Ukraine their home? You are right, who am I to challenge that. I mean, history means nothing to you.

If you had wit rather than shit between your ears you'd fucking well realise (as I keep emphasising) that I'm not talking about Jewish history, I'm talking about my family's history.
Get it?

If you look at your atlas you'll see that Trans-Diniester [my maternal family's main origin in Europe] you will find that it is actually connected to the Ukraine. I am well aware of thr Ukranian attitudes towards Jews.

As am I.

I have not kept kosher since I entered the army. In a way I am glad that the cahredi NAHAL battalion had not been formed yet. I have never had the soup with the knuckle but rather with three ytpes of pork sausage. Good eating.

Don't try it with the pig knuckle unless you like grease. I've never eaten it with pork in it myself (I love the chicken version too much), but the pig knuckle one always seems to have an inch of liquid fat floating on top, even if the cook has trimmed off all the fat.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I say we drop r18 in the middle of the Gaeltacht or Gàidhealtachd and see how he gets on.

I get the feeling we've had this 'conversation' before.

We did.

 

[tangentlama]

(this poster, designed by Zeev Raban was designed to promote tourism to the Land of Palestine (pre-1948 Israel).

 

[nino_savatte]

We did.

He slipped up big time when he claimed "Celtic" was a language. He'll come back and repeat the same crap, he always does.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: I speak both Modern and Classical Hebrew. There only very minor differences between the two. Hate to break this to you but "digging tunnels" pays more than most MDs and attorneys in america [those not in private practuce anyway]. Nothing wrong with an honest job. Again, what do you do nino, besodes look for trouble?


Modern Hebrew did take loanwords, but then every language diud. Furthermore, it has nthing to do wioth anything beciuse language is just one component. Our customs remain basically unchanged for millemnia. Our traditional religious outlook still remains the same.


Did I say "Celtic lanfguage" or was it Celtic languages. Even there you drop the ball. sigh...so much wasted time and effort here.

 

[astronaut]

So we're agreed then, Palestine did exist and Israel invaded it, cool!!

Now what are the Israelis going to do to resolve the problem then caused?

Shouldn't there be some sort of IQ test before people are allowed to post here?

I mean, this has to be the stupidest post in the history of Urban75.

 

[Lock&Light]

Shouldn't there be some sort of IQ test before people are allowed to post here?

I mean, this has to be the stupidest post in the history of Urban75.

While I certainly can agree that that was a particularly stupid post, you are being optimistic to the extreme if you think it's the stupidest ever posted.

I am now waiting, with my riposte ready, for one or two of the handful of idiots who will now jump in to say, "No, L&L, this post by you is the stupidest ever". I'm even prepared to let anyone who's interested know who I think the first idiot will be. Anyone want to bet?

 

[Gmart]

Surprisingly enough i didn't think it was that stupid. I was just trying to stop this thread being yet another series of ever greater insults, and guide it back to the matter in hand. Solutions.

No matter what history everyone here is coming up with to try and justify their already existing viewpoints, there has to be a point where we try and find some solutions or else we are just whingeing about how the world's unfair.

I think it's fair to say that the Israelis invaded Palestine despite the existence of some existing Jews there. Certainly the vote here bears this out. There were some germans in Poland before they invaded in 1939, but no one would suggest this invasion was justified, so lets move on.

Also despite the continual protestations here it is also evident that Jews and Arabs are not treated the same there. In a recent story in the news Israel's Supreme Court ruled against overturning a law that stops Arabs from marrying Israeli residents to get citizenship or residency. Doesn't sound like equality to me. (See here)

Inevitably there are some here who cannot accept that the Israelis are the oppressors and that they treat one set of people differently to another (a form of racism). Arguing over what to call it is useless.

Until the Israelis accept these facts, there will be no progress in the area. Until they can learn to all live together with the same rights and freedoms there will always be someone fighting for these freedoms.

I get the feeling that many of the Jews are in a state of deep denial as to what has been happening, and are so obsessed with achieving the promised land mentioned in some book they all took WAY too literally, that they will choose what 'facts' they wish to read and ignore as 'western dogma' anything which does not fit their world view.

If they don't wake up from this sleep and smell the roses then sooner or later a suicide bomber won't be content with a meaningless, minor expression, they will strap a nuclear device on. And then it will be too late...

 

[moono]

Astronaut;

I mean, this has to be the stupidest post in the history of Urban75.

I've awarded you that dubious distinction for calling me a racist.

You're one dumb ex-Dumpty.

 

[astronaut]

While I certainly can agree that that was a particularly stupid post, you are being optimistic to the extreme if you think it's the stupidest ever posted.

I agree there are plenty of stupid posts, such as some by riot sky or ninja, but those posts are intensionally stupid.

This post is not intensionally stupid, and that intent (or lack of) makes all the difference.

I am now waiting, with my riposte ready, for one or two of the handful of idiots who will now jump in to say, "No, L&L, this post by you is the stupidest ever".

I figured there would be some of that as well, but who cares?

I'm even prepared to let anyone who's interested know who I think the first idiot will be. Anyone want to bet?

Let me guess, moono!

OK, I know it's not so smart to guess after the fact.

 

[astronaut]

Surprisingly enough i didn't think it was that stupid. I was just trying to stop this thread being yet another series of ever greater insults, and guide it back to the matter in hand. Solutions.

No? Perhaps you need to reread it. Cool!?

I thought about responding to the rest of your post, but it's clear that you haven't understood what's really going on, the true complexity of the issues involved, at any sort of level, so you won't really understand my response either.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Shouldn't there be some sort of IQ test before people are allowed to post here?

I mean, this has to be the stupidest post in the history of Urban75.

you are right that post as in your post is the stupidest post on urban then we have come to expect nothing less from you...

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: I speak both Modern and Classical Hebrew. There only very minor differences between the two. Hate to break this to you but "digging tunnels" pays more than most MDs and attorneys in america [those not in private practuce anyway]. Nothing wrong with an honest job. Again, what do you do nino, besodes look for trouble?


Modern Hebrew did take loanwords, but then every language diud. Furthermore, it has nthing to do wioth anything beciuse language is just one component. Our customs remain basically unchanged for millemnia. Our traditional religious outlook still remains the same.


Did I say "Celtic lanfguage" or was it Celtic languages. Even there you drop the ball. sigh...so much wasted time and effort here.

I hate to break this to you but Celtic languages are alive and thriving. Only an ethno-centric like you would say otherwise.

Modern Hebrew did take loan words, how the fuck do you think it was constructed? here's somethign that you never offer in support of your wild reactionary ideas...proof.

Because of its large disuse for centuries, Hebrew lacked many modern words. Several were adapted as neologisms from the Hebrew Bible or borrowed from other languages by Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language

Any language that has been out of use for long periods of time will always contain loaned words. Do you speak esperanto as well?

This is funny

what do you do nino, besodes look for trouble?

That's what you came to Urban for: to cause trouble and stir shit.

For someone who likes to come across a the intellectual better of others, you're in the wrong job, pal. Shouldn't you be poisoning the minds of our youth in a college somewhere?

You're a nasty poisonous wee twerp.

 

[nino_savatte]

No loaned words in Modern Hebrew? Pull the other one!

Here's some more. For someone who likes to present himself as an authority on all things Jewish, there appears to be a number of inconsistencies in your story. Here's an interesting article written by a Jewish fella about Modern Hebrew.

Yet it cannot be denied that the number of foreign loan-words in the Israeli slang vocabulary is still proportionately larger than in any other language, and that particularly in the initial period of the revival of Hebrew as a spoken language, the majority of such terms and expressions were of alien provenance. Thirty years ago, Daniel Persky, probably the first scholar to contemplate the study of evolving Hebrew slang, noted that “if we discern a certain popular vitality, here and there in pungent or humorous terms, we may assume that they are alien grafts.” It should be borne in mind that the reference here is not only to direct borrowings from other languages, but also to what may be called loan-translations (i.e. words modeled more or less closely after foreign words but consisting of the speech material of the language in which they are created). In this area also, Hebrew slang is characterized by the addition of foreign suffixes, especially – ist (like shekemist, a worker in an Army shekem – “canteen” – which itself, incidentally, was created from the initial letters of the Israel Army term Sherut Kantinot uMis’adot
http://www.adath-shalom.ca/hebrew_slang_sappan.htm

Have you ever studied linguistics? I haven't but I read a great deal about linguistics because it is of interest to me.

 

[astronaut]

How does an argument over the use of borrowed words in Hebrew contribute to this or any debate?

 

[nino_savatte]

How does an argument over the use of borrowed words in Hebrew contribute to this or any debate?

You should ask your fellow traveller rachamim18 that question. I merely corrected him on a point of fact.

 

[astronaut]

You should ask your fellow traveller rachamim18 that question. I merely corrected him on a point of fact.

I put it to both of you.

 

[nino_savatte]

I put it to both of you.

And I put it to you that you should ask him as he started this.

 

[astronaut]

And I put it to you that you should ask him as he started this.

OK, if he wants to respond, he can. But, why did you attack him about it? Don't you think it's a little pointless, or at least as pointless as him mentioning it in the first place?

 

[nino_savatte]

OK, if he wants to respond, he can. But, why did you attack him about it? Don't you think it's a little pointless, or at least as pointless as him mentioning it in the first place?

I think you're being a tad dramatic and no it isn't "pointless". He claimed that no one spoke "Celtic" (sic) as a first languauge in an effort to present his culture as superior. I simply put him straight. If you don't like that, that's your problem.

 

[astronaut]

I think you're being a tad dramatic and no it isn't "pointless". He claimed that no one spoke "Celtic" (sic) as a first languauge in an effort to present his culture as superior. I simply put him straight.

So ignore his silly comments.

If you don't like that, that's your problem.

Woooooowwwww. I don't like pointless bickering, and any adult would agree with me. If you don't see what's wrong with bickering, that's your problem.