tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
you're not from the US, are you, astronaut?
Did Palestine really exist?
- Thread starter Gmart
- Start date
tangentlama said:
No, but I did live there for a short time, but not nearly long enough to be Americanized.
I also object to being called a "US Zionist" -- I've made my views quite clear on where I stand in relation to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
Both the far right and the far left would/do despise what I have to say -- they don't like to be compared to each other.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
astronaut said:
No pal, it is you who is "full of it". You claimed that it was "British cowardice that led to 6 million deaths". Now you're backtracking.
Not very honest, are you?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
why are you not concerned with the near 6 million other who died....astronaut said:
moreover it should be stated that the first victims of the german attitude (curing the nazi rule) towards all peoples were german...
Here's an interesting quote from an essay written in 1981 by AJP Taylor:
Much of this involves an examination of British records, particularly from the Foreign Office. These provide an anthology of hard-heartedness. "HMG do not recognise a distinct Jewish nationality..... This is a major fallacy..... Once we open the door to adult male Jews to be taken out of enemy territory, a quite unmanageable flood may result.... There are signs of increasing anti-Semitism in Britain itself." The Jews were accused of inventing or at least exaggerating the atrocity stories with "the main object of filling Palestine with Jews". Eden's private secretary recorded: "Unfortunately AE is immovable on the subject of Palestine. He loves Arabs and hates Jews." This applied to most of the British cabinet ministers with the solitary exception of Winston Churchill, who repeatedly voiced his sympathy with the Jews and was as repeatedly overruled when he proposed any practical action.
Much of this involves an examination of British records, particularly from the Foreign Office. These provide an anthology of hard-heartedness. "HMG do not recognise a distinct Jewish nationality..... This is a major fallacy..... Once we open the door to adult male Jews to be taken out of enemy territory, a quite unmanageable flood may result.... There are signs of increasing anti-Semitism in Britain itself." The Jews were accused of inventing or at least exaggerating the atrocity stories with "the main object of filling Palestine with Jews". Eden's private secretary recorded: "Unfortunately AE is immovable on the subject of Palestine. He loves Arabs and hates Jews." This applied to most of the British cabinet ministers with the solitary exception of Winston Churchill, who repeatedly voiced his sympathy with the Jews and was as repeatedly overruled when he proposed any practical action.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
1) I don't need history lessons from the likes of you.rachamim18 said:
2) The Ukraine was my family's land. Stalin's famine affected us more than the Russians, probably because we had the guts to resist Sovietisation and had supported the Makhnovist forces (as you'd know if you had learned your history lessons properly).
3) My mother's line is Jewish. As for this "100%" crap, matrilineal descent is what matters, is it not? Unless of course you're some kind of ultra-orthodox weirdo, which, given your claim not to be religious, you shouldn't be.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
astronaut said:Oh FFS
Why FFS?
Isn't it a fact that the first victims of Hitler's policies were Germans. History certainly appears to record that it was German people with mental and physical handicaps, German Jews, communists, queers etc that were the first to be murdered.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
astronaut said:
No, you ignored my point about the rampant Judaephobia that existed in the US before 1946.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
it's not a concession it's a correction to an incorrect assertation thereafter proved wrong by fact...astronaut said:
a concession is something given away in order to broker a better deal for all concerned...
there can be no concessions to inaccuracy, incorrect assumptions, unsubstaiated utterences or personal opinion... there can only be corrections when one of the catigories are proved inaccurate.
Nino: I am well aware of the Galicia in Spain. I speak better Spanish than English. Funny, that was the seat of Celtic culture in Spain. One of my favorite soups comes from there [Caldo de Gallego...Gallego being Spanish for Galicia].
As for the "Pale of Settlement." It was an area that the Czar restricted Jews to. I already told you where it sits more or less, but thanks for the Wikipedia hyper-link even if the one on Eastern [or as they say Central] Europe has no article.
Panda: History lessons? Noone was talking about the nonsense you are spouting so what would it have to do with my history lessons.
Matrilineal descent is the bond, ultra- orthadox or not [in fact Reform argue that the father is acceptable but then Reform mean nothing except to other Reform]. My comment was with regards to your comment about Russia [or Ukraine] being your family's land. If you are talking about the Jewish half of your family, you do need some history lessons.
As for the "Pale of Settlement." It was an area that the Czar restricted Jews to. I already told you where it sits more or less, but thanks for the Wikipedia hyper-link even if the one on Eastern [or as they say Central] Europe has no article.
Panda: History lessons? Noone was talking about the nonsense you are spouting so what would it have to do with my history lessons.
Matrilineal descent is the bond, ultra- orthadox or not [in fact Reform argue that the father is acceptable but then Reform mean nothing except to other Reform]. My comment was with regards to your comment about Russia [or Ukraine] being your family's land. If you are talking about the Jewish half of your family, you do need some history lessons.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
rachamim18 said:
You "speak better Spanish than English"? Whatever next? I suppose you speak fluent Esperanto as well.
That's it, criticise my sources when you never offer any evidence if requested to do so.
Patronising sod.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
rachamim18 said:
Why, because your version is authoritative (even though you're talking about Russia and I was talking about Ukraine)? The Church and some of the people may not have wanted Jews there, but my family had as much right as any to call themselves Ukrainians, and they did. They weren't interested in [schlepping to Palestine or South America. Their land was their land.
So please don't presume to try and tell me what to think.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
no it is NOT. an arab IS a semite - full stop - and has been so for 4000 years.astronaut said:
why should those of us with a fuller, better understanding of the term, in fact of the english language, cede way to the ignorance of others?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
rachamim18 said:
Without the chorizo, ham or pig knuckle that many Galicians put in it, I hope.
Gallego/Galego is also the Spanish "dialect" that Galicians speak.
Oh, and it still is the seat of Celtic culture, even near on 40 years of Fascist dictatorship and the homogenising forces that brought into play couldn't erase that.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
ViolentPanda said:
This would be the Celtic culture that rach tells us "doesn't exist".
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
well, he's right in a way if you mean that modern druids, who say they're following celtic tradition, celebrate @stonehenge in the summer, when it's almost certain that the gathering there was in winter, and that there's a bloody great roof to keep out the British Weather missing from all previous reconstruction efforts (mistletoe, anyone?).
the 'modern tradition' today, i.e. post 1966, seems to be founded on Gardner's revivals', and seems to have changed considerably from when Winston Churchill was a member
http://witcombe.sbc.edu/earthmysteries/EMStonehengeC.html
the 'modern tradition' today, i.e. post 1966, seems to be founded on Gardner's revivals', and seems to have changed considerably from when Winston Churchill was a member
http://witcombe.sbc.edu/earthmysteries/EMStonehengeC.html
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tangentlama said:
Ah, but I wasn't talking about modern Druids and if rach wants to make a point about the continuity of culture and how his narrow version of Jewish culture is far superior because of its "unbroken link to the past". He would do well to remember that modern Hebrew npthing more than a construction...like modern Gaidhlig it had to borrow from other languages.
nino_savatte said:
All languages borrow from other languages.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
nino_savatte said:
Always petty, now boring as well. Actually, it's an improvement for our nino.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
In other words, don't bother you shitstirring fuckwit.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
He addresses an audience that exists only in his heid. That is one of the defining characteristics of a serious mental health problem.
nino_savatte said:
I would hate to be so obsessed and so myopic as you must be.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Good night and fuck off.
nino_savatte said:Good night and fuck off.
Obsessed to the point of insanity. Have you been to see your doctor, recently, nino? If not, perhaps you should.
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