David Davis resigns as MP over civil liberties

[Dravinian]

Dravinian - that is a brilliant idea !


Ok, where's the thread then?

It got closed and flew off the General Page.

Didn't see the point of putting it in politics while this thread existed here, and obviously wanted a more general feel.

This is honestly the only thing i seen the media show any interest in. Why not use that.

I have to admit, I don't like the fact that this will help Davis, but then, it will only help him against Cameron, and I don't like him either, so fuck it, who cares if Davis mounts a challenge to the leadership off of our protest, I don't care, let the Tories eat each other suits me fine.

 

[Dravinian]

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=253446

Was the thread.

As you can see after 24 pages of not one person mentioning my idea, the two threads were clearly going to be exact duplicates and this site clearly doesn't have the bandwidth to have two similar threads going.

Probably running low what with all the parody threads.

Maybe if I had called it:

Should everyone Champagne for David Davis!

Then perhaps it would have remained open.

 

[TAE]

Bah, how is that a duplication?

Anyway ... there should be a thread in here or maybe in here once the campaigning gets going.

 

[Darios]

There's a few of us posting on here from the North Dravinian. I'd certainly be willing to help as long as it was run on a non-partisan basis.

 

[JimPage]

Talk today in Scottish Daily Express of Labour putting up John Smeaton, he of the dropkick a muslim at Glasgow Airport fame, as a general sun/labour canddiate

 

[xenon]

Davis is politically unpalatable to me. But he is not fundamentally evil in the way his main opponent, Kelvin Mackenzie, is. I also am not sure Davis is bigoted in the way Mackenzie is, he is possibly misguided instead. If the by-election fight is reduced to a civil liberties debate I will have to back Davis (not that my 'critical support' acually adds up to anything in this case!).

All of the party political issues and constitutional queries will fade away if this becomes a Davis-Mackenzie fight. The people in Davis' camp will be people I disagree with but would probably be reasonable enough to have a good debate with me. In Mackenzie's camp it will be the usual gang of racists, nutters and Sun readers. With this in mind it becomes important that Davis wins, and that maybe the Conservative government that controls aspects of my life after the next GE (even though they will not win a majority in my country) will be coloured more by Davis' style of Conservatism, rather than the Sun newspaper's own brand.

Progressive people could also then use Davis' victory to support an abandonment of ID cards and other horrible schemes that are being dreamt up by the authoritarians in parliament at the moment.

I agree 100%. I also really can't see McKensy winning and hope he's thurroughly humiliated.

I'm finding the continuing farcible search for a pro 42 days candidate to stand against Davis quite funny.

 

[xenon]

And that idea mentioned above by Dravinion is excelent. Like the potential slogons

. Deserves it's own thread again.

 

[Darios]

Labour MP Bob Marshall-Andrews backs Davis

 

[butchersapron]

I started a thread suggesting that people who are political active, SWP, No2ID cards etc etc should all descend on his constituency.

Make a show of it, show that while the media want to portray it as a political stunt and pointless, as labour and the Lib Dems want to step aside and make it a non-entity election, we should get together and smother his constituency with people just as a show of hands.

Simply as a single banner that everyone can stand behind, what other campaign have we got to get behind? Where else is there some big stand against 42 days? I ain't really seen shit that the media is interested in, and while Gordon 'that fuckwit' Brown wants to bang on about Polls we need to prove that some people in this country do not back him.

We don't want 42 day detention.

Even if we have to go with signs that say:

I can't stand the Conservatives....but I like my civil liberties.

Vote Davis

But that thread was closed. In favour of this one.....yeah I don't know why either. I would rather I didn't have to post a rally cry to do something against 42 day detention on the 24th page of a thread where people have been bickering.

Who cares huh, not like anyone would have done it anyway. Cause we all too fucking lazy, so we all deserve exactly what we get.

So the idea is to support Davis not stand against him? Fucking hell. Exactly what i said would happen.

 

[Darios]

So the idea is to support Davis not stand against him? Fucking hell. Exactly what i said would happen.

So stand against him Butchers.

 

[butchersapron]

How about a banner reading:

Fuck Davis

I'm for Civil Liberties

 

[butchersapron]

So stand against him Butchers.

What's that supposed to mean? That you support a campaign in favour of Davis?

 

[Dravinian]

So the idea is to support Davis not stand against him? Fucking hell. Exactly what i said would happen.

What do we gain by standing against someone who is standing solely against the issue of 42 day detentions.

We would be saying, we are for 42 day detention?

Or stand another candidate saying exactly the same thing as Davis the well known incumbant. Which is pointless and costs money.

This way it doesn't cost more then a train journey to Grimsby and back.

And supporting Davis?

Where is the down side on this one occasion? He will win the seat anyway, it is a conservative safe seat, and Cameron and Co are all going to be there to push for him to win, you won't be changing shit. If you are helping Davis you are helping him by giving him public support....to do what? To mount a challenge against Cameron for the Conservative Leadership?

ermmm Good. The more infighting and back biting the less chance they will be elected.

 

[butchersapron]

No, you stand a candidate who is genuinely as opposed to opportunistically pro-civil liberties, and exposing Davis' and the tory parties own disgusting record on civil liberties.

If he's going to win anyway why not seek to expose what he and the tory party are up to instead of holding hands with them. You even say that Cameron and co will be there supporting him. Hold hands with them too eh?

Vote Tory

 

[Dravinian]

No, you stand a candidate who is genuinely as opposed to opportunistically pro-civil liberties, and exposing Davis' and the tory parties own disgusting record on civil liberties.

If he's going to win anyway why not seek to expose what he and the tory party are up to instead of holding hands with them. You even say that Cameron and co will be there supporting him. Hold hands with them too eh?

Vote Tory

Ok so you got the deposit then?

You putting your money where your mouth is?

 

[Darios]

What's that supposed to mean? That you support a campaign in favour of Davis?

On this particular issue. Yes. I've already sent their campaign details on the shite Luke Akehurst has been spewing, maybe they'll make use of it.

Or I could just shout at people on the internets instead and tell everyone to do something I'm not going to do myself.

 

[butchersapron]

What you mean aside from being busy trying to rustle up a suitable local candidate and funds for a campaign for the last few days, yeah. My money is where my mouth is. Rather than this VOTE TORY bollocks. I'm glad you decided not to reply to any of my points btw dravidian.

 

[butchersapron]

On this particular issue. Yes. I've already sent their campaign details on the shite Luke Akehurst has been spewing, maybe they'll make use of it.

Or I could just shout at people on the internets instead and tell everyone to do something I'm not going to do myself.

What are you going to do yourself other than shouting on the internet. VOTE TORY.

 

[Dravinian]

What you mean aside from being busy trying to rustle up a suitable local candidate and funds for a campaign for the last few days, yeah. My money is where my mouth is. Rather than this VOTE TORY bollocks. I'm glad you decided not to reply to nay of my points btw.

You don't have any points butchersapron.

my argument was simple.

Go to Grimsby stand there holding a sign saying you don't like the Tories, but saying you like yourt civil liberties.

it costs the amount of a train ticket and requires the organisational skills of a tadpole.

What you are doing is admirable, but to stand in an election costs time and money, and is at the end of the day, fruitless.

I see you didn't answer my point that by Helping Davis you could be doing even more damage to the Conservative party.

Instead your plan is to unseat the one conservative who Cameron doesn't like and sees as a real threat?

Any other things you would like to do for the Tory party? Got a donation maybe?

 

[Darios]

What are you going to do yourself other than shouting on the internet. VOTE TORY.

His consituency isn't too far from me. Travelling there with a few like minded people and offering support isn't out of the question.

With regard to those of us who see some kind of value in what Davis has done, or what may come of it I guess it's "with us or against us" right Butchers?

 

[butchersapron]

On this particular issue. Yes. I've already sent their campaign details on the shite Luke Akehurst has been spewing, maybe they'll make use of it.

Or I could just shout at people on the internets instead and tell everyone to do something I'm not going to do myself.

Wow, you sent a tories campaign material to a new labour drones blog. It's like 1968 all over again.

Is this really where free-market libertarianism leads. A pro-tory vote and a willingness to be used as political cannon fodder. Shut your eyes and jump into the trap. FOR LIBERTY!

 

[butchersapron]

His consituency isn't too far from me. Travelling there with a few like minded people and offering support isn't out of the question.

With regard to those of us who see some kind of value in what Davis has done, or what may come of it I guess it's "with us or against us" right Butchers?

Against Davis, and his shrillived 28 days anti-gay pro-hanging vision and for real Civil liberties, yes.

 

[Badger Kitten]

I am not a Tory, I do not support homophobia or the death penalty, but I DO support civil liberties passionately, and I am in favour of making a big deal about it and getting the debate going about it. Shami Chakrabarti, Henry Porter and Helena Kennedy are not Tories but they have stepped forward to support the raising of this single issue by applauding Davis, who is genuinely committed to this issue. Yes, he is. I met him last year in a private meeting. I went in their with some trepidation to talk about a 7/7 inquiry, with my husband's half-joking jibes about consorting with the Tory enemy still ringing in my ears. David Davis shocked me by being absolutely passionate about it, and about civil liberties. His eyes were shining, his back straightened, you could tell it was deeply personal with him.

Yes, he is an ambitious man. Yes, he is a staunch Tory. But he has walked away from the second most senior job in the Shadow Cabinet and the likelihood of being Home Secretary in 2 years over this one issue, because he is genuinely so wrought up over it and disgusted with the parliamentary dealing and bullying and backsliding on it.

Anything to coerce parliamentarians into defending our liberties because they have popular, cross party support for standing up for liberties on principle is a good thing as far as I am concerned. I don't care who leads the charge as long as they are sincere. The charge needs to start.

That's why I am supporting Davis' stand, not the Tories, not New Labour, but the general principle that liberties are important to the people of this country and ought to be cherished, not thrown away in a climate of fear-mongering and political point scoring.

There is massive popular support for this; all the reader comments in newspapers and most of the blogs are running Davis' way. The media are belatedly waking up to this and seeing they have misread the public mood.

Oh, and that poll?
Not all it seems

 

[Darios]

Is this really where free-market libertarianism leads. A pro-tory vote and a willingness to be used as political cannon fodder. Shut your eyes and jump into the trap. FOR LIBERTY!

If you say so Butchers it must be true.

Davis, whatever his motives, is making a stand on a key Libertarian issue. He gets my support on this issue. According to you that means I'm with the terrists,... sorry, tories.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Wow, you sent a tories campaign material to a new labour drones blog.

Other way round I think.

 

[butchersapron]

VOTE TORY

Mugs

 

[butchersapron]

If you say so Butchers it must be true.

Davis, whatever his motives, is making a stand on a key Libertarian issue. He gets my support on this issue. According to you that means I'm with the terrists,... sorry, tories.

It means that it's a piece of piss to pull the political wool over your eyes.

 

[butchersapron]

I am not a Tory, I do not support homophobia or the death penalty, but I DO support civil liberties passionately, and I am in favour of making a big deal about it and getting the debate going about it. Shami Chakrabarti, Henry Porter and Helena Kennedy are not Tories but they have stepped forward to support the raising of this single issue by applauding Davis, who is genuinely committed to this issue. Yes, he is. I met him last year in a private meeting. I went in their with some trepidation to talk about a 7/7 inquiry, with my husband's half-joking jibes about consorting with the Tory enemy still ringing in my ears. David Davis shocked me by being absolutely passionate about it, and about civil liberties. His eyes were shining, his back straightened, you could tell it was deeply personal with him.

Yes, he is an ambitious man. Yes, he is a staunch Tory. But he has walked away from the second most senior job in the Shadow Cabinet and the likelihood of being Home Secretary in 2 years over this one issue, because he is genuinely so wrought up over it and disgusted with the parliamentary dealing and bullying and backsliding on it.

Anything to coerce parliamentarians into defending our liberties because they have popular, cross party support for standing up for liberties on principle is a good thing as far as I am concerned. I don't care who leads the charge as long as they are sincere. The charge needs to start.

That's why I am supporting Davis' stand, not the Tories, not New Labour, but the general principle that liberties are important to the people of this country and ought to be cherished, not thrown away in a climate of fear-mongering and political point scoring.

There is massive popular support for this; all the reader comments in newspapers and most of the blogs are running Davis' way. The media are belatedly waking up to this and seeing they have misread the public mood.

Oh, and that poll?
Not all it seems

And you'd support the tory Davis over another pro-civil liberties candiate that didn't have such a spotty record on the issues as Davis does?

 

[Darios]

Davis, who is genuinely committed to this issue. Yes, he is. I met him last year in a private meeting. I went in their with some trepidation to talk about a 7/7 inquiry, with my husband's half-joking jibes about consorting with the Tory enemy still ringing in my ears. David Davis shocked me by being absolutely passionate about it, and about civil liberties. His eyes were shining, his back straightened, you could tell it was deeply personal with him.

What's your response to this Butchers? Does BK get the same "political wool over her eyes" treatment?

 

[Darios]

And you'd support the tory Davis over another pro-civil liberties candiate that didn't have such a spotty record on the issues as Davis does?

That's a discussion that could be had if such a candidate was standing. As yet there isn't one.