David Davis resigns as MP over civil liberties
- Thread starter magneze
- Start date
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Why doesn't Peter Tatchell stand - or Chakribarti - or someone.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Perhaps Livingstone - that would be funny.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Tatchell is standing in Oxford and may not want to be associated with external stuff that could be used to undermine his campaign next time around, and chakrabati may be on the turn since she accepted her gong. Someone of that stature will stand though, i'm sure of it.
If it keeps discussion on the subject going then that has to be a good thing. Perhaps more of the population might start to realise how dangerous each of these proposed steps are. It's all well and good for the Gobment to pontificate that it will only apply to a select few terrorist suspects. That doesn't mean that it won't creep in the future to apply in more and more instances. It's not even as if anyone has actually been convicted so far, after being held for 28 days!
It's also worth mentioning how MacKenzie standing to represent the Sun and by proxy, the Labour government might draw the curtain back far enough for more people to perceive the mutual masturbation circle amongst the elites.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I think a split vote would be disastrous. I think we're at a knife-edge "turning point" here that will decide which way the country heads of all this increasing authoritariansim and paranoia. If Davies wins, the symbol point that is made will be very strong. The same is true, though, if he loses: we'll have to listen to horrendous crowing that "the people have spoken" in favour of these measures and all future opposition to things liek ID cards may diminish.
More to the point, I fear: the police raid who they damn well please and take away their computers, cameras and paper files - including lawyers' notes on legal defences for people arrested - for 72 hours with no need whatsoever for reasonable suspicion or anything.
I'm still convinced that the 42 days was the dummy provision, designed to be lost, as a smokescreen for the rest of the Bill. Then Gordon nailed his colours to its mast and it all went wrong, politically.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Well presumably that's because the police hadn't had enough time to gather enough evidence!
According to the BBC, a total of six people have been held close to 28 days, two were charged, three released and the last one was charged but with an unrelated offence
CyberRose
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In Haltenprice and Howden, 23,000 people voted Tory, 17,000 voted Lib Dem and 6,000 voted Labour. The Lib Dems are not standing. It doesn't take a mathematical genius to figure out which way this by-election will go and it will have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with civil liberties and it will have no reflection on the mood of the country. It is a very clever piece of opportunism that will be spun by the Tories to suggest the country supports them over Labour, and it will be used civil liberty groups to suggest the country does not support 42 day detention (when the opinion polls suggest the opposite is in fact true)
The votes are already in and counted - Davis won
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
Now it looks like Davies only opponent is going to be Kelvin fucking Mackenzie
If nothing else it should be an entertaining sideshow, hopefully Ian Bone and Carole of Big Brother will stand as well
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Any law that can be changed by an act of parliament that gains royal ascent cannot truly be said to be a part of a constitution, unless one holds that the British constitution is the monarch.Oh FFS you still dont understand what a Constitution is do you
Hint - just because it isnt the same as the one in American telly shows it doesnt mean it isnt a constitution.
I know the urabn IQ has fallen in recent years but really...
BTW, your insults are misjudged.
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I've heard MacKenzie on radio this morning, and I'm afraid I don't find it at all amusing. He is treating the abolition of habeas corpus as a joke. There is nothing funny about it. And now the media story isn't about habeas corpus, but about whether MacKenzie will stand.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Does anyone believe he'll be able to over turn David Davis' majority?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I understand all that, but the perception of the matter is otherwise and in some ways that's what matters. If we want a brake to be put on this out-of-control authoritarianism, we'd better hope this goes the right way.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
And none was charged using any information not available by 12 days.Well presumably that's because the police hadn't had enough time to gather enough evidence!
According to the BBC, a total of six people have been held close to 28 days, two were charged, three released and the last one was charged but with an unrelated offence
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
No, but he'll turn this into a joke. It isn't a joke.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
It's not impossible. It could be a lot closer than we think. This is, in effect, a mini-referendum on all sorts of things that have been brewing for some time now and the eyes and mood of the country are watchingthis closely ... and the mood of the country could be tipped one way or another on the result. If Mackenzie does win, that's pretty much the end of any hope for a new national mood on all this. A certain point will have been made.
CyberRose
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Well I'm sceptical as to whether this is needed, but like I said elsewhere, no-one here knows what the police need to conduct their investigations...
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Oh, if Davis does a good job on 42 days, the ID Card and the suchlike he should get a majority!?
That said not all conservative voters are anti ID Cards, and not all anti 42 days either so the votes for and against could come from across the whole electorate there which paints a rather different picture.
That said not all conservative voters are anti ID Cards, and not all anti 42 days either so the votes for and against could come from across the whole electorate there which paints a rather different picture.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The important thing is to talk about the issue of freedom, not the personalities. David Davis is mostly a reactionary cunt. The word cunt seems inadequate for Mackenzie. Hopefully other candidates will stand to provide a more effective protest vote.
CyberRose
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Well for a start I don't think we have "out of control authoritarianism" because they want to lock up terror suspects for longer or because they want to introduce ID cards, I don't think that's what the majority of the population think and I don't think it does you any favours to suggest the UK is like Zimbabwe!
It seems that the message coming from civil liberty groups is civil liberties/human rights = good, and not much else. But the mood among the population tends to be civil liberties/human rights = bad! Now taking away some civil liberties to accommodate security isn't automatically a bad thing, nor does it mean we're living in a police state. Complete civil liberties are also not desirable. What civil liberty groups should be saying is why this new law will be bad, not just "it's bad". Being able to lock up terror suspects for longer will not be seen as bad by probably the vast majority of people. But the danger is who else can be targeted by these new laws?
Anti terrorist laws have in the past been used against people who are not terror suspects, can this 42 day detention law also be used against people who are not terror suspects?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Firstly, it's a straw man to suggest I was saying the UK is becoming like Zombabwe - as I had not said this at all.
Secondly - there's an old quote about those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for security will get and deserve neither.
Sooner or later it's time to say "Enough And No More!". That time is now.
untethered
For industry & decency
I'm going to make a modern-day version of Battleship Potemkin in support of Mr Davis's campaign.
Action stations!
Action stations!
CyberRose
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How can it? This is a serious question, I wanted to read what the law actually says but haven't had the time. It's supposedly for use in "exceptional circumstances", is that enshrined in the wording?
Depends what specific liberty we're talking about! Even many on this forum would like to see the BNP given no platform. Go a little further, and should people have the right to have racist views? Then we get to what I meant by the public don't like civil liberties: should religious extremists be allowed to encourage people to kill people of other religions?
untethered
For industry & decency
No platform policies are adopted by individual organisations and institutions which have no general obligation to host anyone they dislike. It's not a civil liberties issue.
CyberRose
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You said "out of control authoritarianism" as if we are living in a fascist state. That simply is not true
There needs to be a balance between civil liberties and security, neither extreme is desirable
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