Daniel Perl's father: anti Zionism is racism.

[nino_savatte]

I don't recall denying that there is a range of jewish opinion. Can you point me to a post where I did so?

I'd be surprised if I did, since I happen to believe that there is a range of jewish opinion on the subject.

Really? You seem to be labouring under the illusion that Zionism is universally popular among the world's Jewry. You also have a problem acknowledging other Jews in the world like the Bene and Beta Israel, the Lemba, the Igbo and the Jews of Mali. What about the Chinese Jews and the Jews of Indonesia? I guess they don't matter because that would severely puncture your fragile arguments.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If the majority on both sides are working for peace, why have so many attempts over the decades ended in failure?

The US government.

 

[goldenecitrone]

But you haven't explained why the jews shouldn't strive for nationhood.

Should have given them Poland. Bit late now though.

 

[nino_savatte]

Johnny makes the classic mistake of seeing the Jews as a homogenous 'naton'; it's a conflation of Israel with homeland. That's as patronising as referring to Africa as though it were a country.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

what the hell are you talking about you incompetatant self rightious wanker.....

Is that how you want it? Then the same to you, you muddle-thinking, self deluded, holier-than-thou do-gooder.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

beatiful intelligent kind honest israeli's be ripped to shreads by their own family ..

And you accuse me of bias?

Could you possibly get any more shining adjectives into that sentence?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Should have given them Poland. Bit late now though.

They make the same argument about Germany. But if we assume, as we tend to do, that people are separate from the government, why should land be taken away from regular honest Germans or Poles to give to the jews, any more than the land of Palestinians?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I suppose what it boils down to, Garfield, is that you can't be contradicted in your view on Palestine, because you've been there, and because of that, your thoughts on the subject are so much more valuable than those of the rest of us.

 

[rhod]

Here in BC, we've handed over thousands of hectares and billions of dollars to aboriginal citizens, along with some limited self government in some instances.

"handed over" - I'm sure the aboriginal citizens are profoundly grateful for your unbridled generosity.

So if "thousands of hectares" and "limited self government" is good enough for your aboriginal peoples, why is it not good enough for the Zionists?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Is that how you want it? Then the same to you, you muddle-thinking, self deluded, holier-than-thou do-gooder.

oddly those apply to you rather than me i think i have been more than explicit in why your comments are unfounded.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"handed over" - I'm sure the aboriginal citizens are profoundly grateful for your unbridled generosity.

So if "thousands of hectares" and "limited self government" is good enough for your aboriginal peoples, why is it not good enough for the Zionists?

Are they grateful? I don't know, but you might want to ask their counterparts in the US how they feel about the whole situation.

Are you suggesting that the jews are a conquered people, like the North American natives?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

And you accuse me of bias?

Could you possibly get any more shining adjectives into that sentence?

probably if i tried how is it bias to describe people as they are?

so on the one hand your argument is if you reject israels occupation you are an anti semite and on the other you are pro zionist bias if you accept state actions are seperate from their populace...

and i'm muddle thinking ...

which is it jc?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

oddly those apply to you rather than me i think i have been more than explicit in why your comments are unfounded.

I have no problem with you telling me how my comments are unfounded. I just don't understand your compulsion to couch those comments in the language of personal attack.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I suppose what it boils down to, Garfield, is that you can't be contradicted in your view on Palestine, because you've been there, and because of that, your thoughts on the subject are so much more valuable than those of the rest of us.

thanks for the patronising attitude, that's your last refuge is it ...

when all obfiscation fails patronise...

why not get of your arse and go do some research jc...

too much like effort for you?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

probably if i tried how is it bias to describe people as they are?

so on the one hand your argument is if you reject israels occupation you are an anti semite and on the other you are pro zionist bias if you accept state actions are seperate from their populace...

and i'm muddle thinking ...

which is it jc?

I've never said those things. I believe that the existence of Israel is a reality that has to be dealt with by everyone including arabs and palestinians. I also believe that the displacement of palestinians was an injustice, and that some sort of just result has to obtain for them as well.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I have no problem with you telling me how my comments are unfounded. I just don't understand your compulsion to couch those comments in the language of personal attack.

understand that underneith i think that you have demonstrated that you are a reasonable human being and that this current spate of rubbsih threads with poor research exasperates me as to your motiveation.

i can call it when i think your acting like a dick as i would expect you would in the same given circumstance. If not then you would be more deceitful than i give you credit for.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

thanks for the patronising attitude, that's your last refuge is it ...

when all obfiscation fails patronise...

why not get of your arse and go do some research jc...

too much like effort for you?

Dude, look back over the thread. You fired the first shot when it comes to patronization.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

understand that underneith i think that you have demonstrated that you are a reasonable human being and that this current spate of rubbsih threads with poor research exasperates me as to your motiveation.

i can call it when i think your acting like a dick as i would expect you would in the same given circumstance. If not then you would be more deceitful than i give you credit for.

No, the difference is that the first paragraph above says exactly what you want to say without the addition of 'dick'.

The first paragraph makes me want to think about what you're saying. Calling me a dick or dishonest, just pisses me off and makes me want to strike back.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I've never said those things. I believe that the existence of Israel is a reality that has to be dealt with by everyone including arabs and palestinians. I also believe that the displacement of palestinians was an injustice, and that some sort of just result has to obtain for them as well.

well it's called the green line jc.


that is already a consession from the nakbah look at the maps pre 1947 and post 67

to accept or to concide that the current map is acceptable is to say palestine should not exist as a contigious state.

sharon proposeal map ie as it is currently...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Help me out: how does the lower map on the right correspond to the two maps on the top?

ie, what area is it showing.

ps, I'm going out for a bit, back on shortly.

 

[vimto]

I've never said those things. I believe that the existence of Israel is a reality that has to be dealt with by everyone including arabs and palestinians.

Hmmm...so Palestinians are different from Arabs in your book Johnny boy? Is this what you are trying to say?

What about Iranians Johnny...are they also different?

Lawyer my arse

 

[vimto]

ps, I'm going out for a bit, back on shortly.

Twat

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

No, the difference is that the first paragraph above says exactly what you want to say without the addition of 'dick'.

The first paragraph makes me want to think about what you're saying. Calling me a dick or dishonest, just pisses me off and makes me want to strike back.

get's you attention tho and makes you question why some is calling you a dick tho..

you are not so egg shell as to not ask yourself why you are beign called a dick when some one does nor are you so wallflower.

 

[nino_savatte]

No, the difference is that the first paragraph above says exactly what you want to say without the addition of 'dick'.

The first paragraph makes me want to think about what you're saying. Calling me a dick or dishonest, just pisses me off and makes me want to strike back.

Troll on, Johnny. Troll on....

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Help me out: how does the lower map on the right correspond to the two maps on the top?

ie, what area is it showing.

ps, I'm going out for a bit, back on shortly.

it's shows the old settlements in gaza pre pull out there has been no update to the maps as of yet.

Other than that these maps are showing the pre and post 67 situation and the current legacy of the post 67 occupation as you can see the occupation has simply remained in the land which was taken then but extended further .

 

[vimto]

The first paragraph makes me want to think about what you're saying. Calling me a dick or dishonest, just pisses me off and makes me want to strike back.

But you are a dick and you are dishonest...so what's the problem here Johnny boy?

 

[vimto]

Come on

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

get's you attention tho and makes you question why some is calling you a dick tho..

you are not so egg shell as to not ask yourself why you are beign called a dick when some one does nor are you so wallflower.

No, it doesn't really get my attention. Mostly, it bores me.

Good ideas or good argument get an hold my attention.

You're right, I'm not an eggshell and have been called lots of names. It's been my experience that namecallers usually don't have much to say.

No, I don't wonder why someone calls me names. Usually, it means that the person has run out of other more effective means of communicating.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

No, it doesn't really get my attention. Mostly, it bores me.

Good ideas or good argument get an hold my attention.

You're right, I'm not an eggshell and have been called lots of names. It's been my experience that namecallers usually don't have much to say.

No, I don't wonder why someone calls me names. Usually, it means that the person has run out of other more effective means of communicating.

nice dodge here but it is a pointless aside ... get back to the point jc what's the reason you have failed to do the most basic of research then?

 

[vimto]

No, it doesn't really get my attention. Mostly, it bores me.

Good ideas or good argument get an hold my attention.

You're right, I'm not an eggshell and have been called lots of names. It's been my experience that namecallers usually don't have much to say.

No, I don't wonder why someone calls me names. Usually, it means that the person has run out of other more effective means of communicating.

No it means that you are a bullshitter with naff all to say. So if you would now wish to apologise to anybodygotapen? this is your perfect opportunity.

Oh and stop pretending that you've still got me on ignore Johnny...if you want to have a debate...have one!