Curfew For Men

[Puddy_Tat]

Am I right in thinking that they're legally obliged to log ALL threats, even ones seemingly made in jest? Surely that's their duty under safeguarding laws/lone workers? Every time I've worked in the public sector, this would get him marked as potentially dangerous and staff sent round in pairs!

I would have thought so - in general under H&S rules, you're supposed to report 'near misses' and 'dangerous occurrences' even if on that occasion they don't lead to an injury / accident.

Some years ago, I worked in a housing benefits office, and people (generally) came to our place but went in to individual interview rooms - there were a small handful of customers who would never be seen alone - someone else would always go in on the pretence of training/ supervision.

I think with the small number of home visits we did (either because of customer's disability or where there was an investigation) then two people going round was pretty much standard.

www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg73.pdf (opens as PDF document) is HSE guidance on lone working

Suzy Lamplugh Trust may also be worth a look - this is specific to risks at work.

ultimately, there is a right to refuse to carry out work on safety grounds, but i'm fuzzy on the detail, and i wouldn't recommend anyone did this without seeking advice from a union rep or someone better informed than i am.

is this person in a union? i'd suggest considering joining one, even if there isn't a recognised union in their workplace. some unions are better than others at representing people in 'non union' workplaces, i know someone who was a care worker and she was in GMB.

Also I was ranting about this to my housemate, and he went on about how we've just got into the habit of reporting every little thing and political correctness is destroying freedom of speech.

fuckwit (him, not you)

 

[oryx]

Every time I've worked in the public sector, this would get him marked as potentially dangerous and staff sent round in pairs!

Same here. The woman's manager is being a negligent arsehole.

I second Puddy_Tat 's advice of contacting the union/joining a union.

 

[Clair De Lune]

Ugh that's horrible. Feels like they should send a guy when there's a misogynist involved...but I guess in that line of work, like mine there are probs way more women.
I once refused a client after a two sessions as he was very physically imposing, talked with glee about hurting a woman in great detail and I spent all my energy attempting to look unphased as I thought he'd enjoy seeing me scared. I insisted he be passed to a male colleague and he was charming as anything to him.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Ugh that's horrible. Feels like they should send a guy when there's a misogynist involved...but I guess in that line of work, like mine there are probs way more women.
I once refused a client after a two sessions as he was very physically imposing, talked with glee about hurting a woman in great detail and I spent all my energy attempting to look unphased as I thought he'd enjoy seeing me scared. I insisted he be passed to a male colleague and he was charming as anything to him.

Yeah, it sucks when you have to do that because you don't want to give the misogynist what he wants, on principle.

I've witnessed that in call centre work and also in the probation office where I used to work on reception. All the officers had their individual caseloads, and one of our women officers had all men who'd been convicted of things like DV, rape or violent robbery. It wasn't unusual for her clients to be rude about her behind her back. One guy (a repeat wife beater) was kicking off because she was five seconds late coming down and demanding "Where is she, the stupid fucking bitch?" I yelled back "I'm not having that language about a colleague! SIT down!" He did because he was so taken aback at a receptionist telling him off. But the other receptionist said "Well, she must be doing something to provoke their attitude." I pointed out that if he's a domestic abuser, he probably hasn't got the best attitude to women anyway, but I wanted to shake her for being so victim blamey.

*needed additional text as I hit post too soon.

 

[dylanredefined]

Something I have thought today. What if weapons were legal for women only. Maybe not guns, but incapacitating stun guns, somehow that could be only used by the owner. But imagine. If women had guns. How many men would be prowling for victims?

I know this is a kind of silly idea, but it made me think

Unless you train with said weapons and instal the right mindset. Which a lot of women won't have time or inclination to do. It would fail.

 

[Serge Forward]

Add stun gun training for girls to the National Curriculum?

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Add stun gun training for girls to the National Curriculum?

I think self defence classes for all pupils should be added. There seems to be a mentality from authority right now of "Don't fight back or you're just as bad as the aggressor." That just trains people to be good obedient victims and is toxic as fuck.

 

[Clair De Lune]

I think self defence classes for all pupils should be added. There seems to be a mentality from authority right now of "Don't fight back or you're just as bad as the aggressor." That just trains people to be good obedient victims and is toxic as fuck.

I agree. I have escaped a number of situations by fighting back and I don't know if I'd have had the courage had I not had an uncle who taught me self defence and took me to martial arts classes.
I worry about my eldest going to uni tbh. I'd like him to learn some self defence techniques first. As being very slender and trans he is just as vulnerable to attacks as any cis woman.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Was it on this thread that we discussed the widely accepted use of violence against women in plot lines of TV and film?
Comedy too. Yuck.

 

[Serge Forward]

Lee Hurst is no surprise though, he's well known for being vile.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think you've missed the point of my post.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Was it on this thread that we discussed the widely accepted use of violence against women in plot lines of TV and film?
Comedy too. Yuck.

View attachment 259519

I'd happily smother him with a single use plastic bag

 

[Aladdin]

I think self defence classes for all pupils should be added. There seems to be a mentality from authority right now of "Don't fight back or you're just as bad as the aggressor." That just trains people to be good obedient victims and is toxic as fuck.

I agree. I have escaped a number of situations by fighting back and I don't know if I'd have had the courage had I not had an uncle who taught me self defence and took me to martial arts classes.
I worry about my eldest going to uni tbh. I'd like him to learn some self defence techniques first. As being very slender and trans he is just as vulnerable to attacks as any cis woman.

When I had a class of teenage girls a few years ago, I took them down to an emptt gymnasium and we practiced screaming and shouting.
Many of them had never raised their voices...ever.
We did this every week until they were not in the least bit hesitant.
I spent time teaching them that their voice is an important part of their defence. We practiced shouting certain phrases at the top of our lungs.

One day the principal was showing an inspector round the school and they walked in to hear the class scream
"GO AWAY" at the top of their lungs.

Proud moment...
I hope they never have to be in a situation where they need to scream and shout like that but it was an important lesson.

 

[weltweit]

I wondered about self defence or some kind of martial arts training, of course women shouldn't have to do this which was why I didn't post it.

Perhaps some kind of tazer, or pepper spray, something to make women less vulnerable to a male aggressor.

In reality most men are also vulnerable. I am six foot two but have never done any fighting training so when I find myself in the wrong part of town perhaps late at night I don't feel safe either.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

One day the principal was showing an inspector round the school and they walked in to hear the class scream
"GO AWAY" at the top of their lungs.

but

and for doing it and that you need to

 

[Sue]

In reality most men are also vulnerable. I am six foot two but have never done any fighting training so when I find myself in the wrong part of town perhaps late at night I don't feel safe either.

Well with a curfew, you'd be at home rather than out on the dangerous streets so problem solved.

 

[Sue]

(Also just to say that i find this stuff about tasers and all really annoying. I mean seriously. )

 

[Aladdin]

but

and for doing it and that you need to

What was really quite funny was that the principal and inspector turned and left without any interaction with us...

And yes...it's horrible that there is a need to do this kind of thing with teenage girls

 

[purenarcotic]

I feel torn on the self-defence classes etc. I get why people do them etc, but in a situation where you think you might need it, you’re not necessarily going to go into ‘fight’ mode. Freeze, flop and friend are the most common responses and freeze in particular is the most likely outcome, and a lot of women use the fact they didn’t use their alarm, or didn’t fight back as another reason to blame themselves. I think the messaging around it needs to be immensely carefully done.

 

[Clair De Lune]

I feel torn on the self-defence classes etc. I get why people do them etc, but in a situation where you think you might need it, you’re not necessarily going to go into ‘fight’ mode. Freeze, flop and friend are the most common responses and freeze in particular is the most likely outcome, and a lot of women use the fact they didn’t use their alarm, or didn’t fight back as another reason to blame themselves. I think the messaging around it needs to be immensely carefully done.

Yeah I get what you're saying. I can only speak for myself in that it helped me to know a few things I could do in order to escape scary situations and I've no doubt it's saved my life a few times. I was getting bullied on my estate by boys and coming home crying with bloody noses etc and my uncle said enough is enough and taught me how to fight back. After a few fights nobody fucked with me anymore and it gave me confidence. Regular practice of martial arts does help you overcome that freeze response ime. But absolutely agree that sometimes the friend response is the only thing we can do to keep ourselves 'safe'

 

[PursuedByBears]

(Also just to say that i find this stuff about tasers and all really annoying. I mean seriously. )

It's like when there's a thread about a shooting that gets derailed by the same male posters parping on about guns and ammo for three pages. Every single time.

 

[purenarcotic]

Yeah I get what you're saying. I can only speak for myself in that it helped me to know a few things I could do in order to escape scary situations and I've no doubt it's saved my life a few times. I was getting bullied on my estate by boys and coming home crying with bloody noses etc and my uncle said enough is enough and taught me how to fight back. After a few fights nobody fucked with me anymore and it gave me confidence. Regular practice of martial arts does help you overcome that freeze response ime. But absolutely agree that sometimes the friend response is the only thing we can do to keep ourselves 'safe'

It’s difficult isn’t it. I suppose I worry because one of the most common things women say to me is ‘I should have fought back’. So I wonder what happens when we already have a societal narrative that questions and blames women and we introduce yet more things for women to do and then pick on when she doesn’t do it because those biological responses take over (although I hear you on the ability to exorcise some control over them). But I also get the confidence thing and lots of people I know who’ve done self defence etc do say that, and that’s never a bad thing. Maybe if it was done for all kids rather than just girls?

 

[Clair De Lune]

It’s difficult isn’t it. I suppose I worry because one of the most common things women say to me is ‘I should have fought back’. So I wonder what happens when we already have a societal narrative that questions and blames women and we introduce yet more things for women to do and then pick on when she doesn’t do it because those biological responses take over (although I hear you on the ability to exorcise some control over them). But I also get the confidence thing and lots of people I know who’ve done self defence etc do say that, and that’s never a bad thing. Maybe if it was done for all kids rather than just girls?

Oh hell yeah all kids should because on the reverse of it helping with the freeze response as you have muscle memory responses you don't even have to think about for self defence, a good martial arts trainer will also teach you that you don't use it to attack and it can be a wonderful way to help harness anger in boys.

 

[Poot]

I feel torn on the self-defence classes etc. I get why people do them etc, but in a situation where you think you might need it, you’re not necessarily going to go into ‘fight’ mode. Freeze, flop and friend are the most common responses and freeze in particular is the most likely outcome, and a lot of women use the fact they didn’t use their alarm, or didn’t fight back as another reason to blame themselves. I think the messaging around it needs to be immensely carefully done.

I've never heard of freeze, flop or friend. That's really interesting. I instinctively go for friend. In fact I can imagine a situation where I would be cheerfully sweet-talking an attacker, trying to placate them, and determinedly NOT using the taser in my pocket if I had one, because it's fine, I've got this, he'll come round eventually. Similar has happened many, many times in the past (without the taser) and my God the shame I've felt when I've realised what just happened.

 

[Red Cat]

It’s difficult isn’t it. I suppose I worry because one of the most common things women say to me is ‘I should have fought back’. So I wonder what happens when we already have a societal narrative that questions and blames women and we introduce yet more things for women to do and then pick on when she doesn’t do it because those biological responses take over (although I hear you on the ability to exorcise some control over them). But I also get the confidence thing and lots of people I know who’ve done self defence etc do say that, and that’s never a bad thing. Maybe if it was done for all kids rather than just girls?

That would be my worry too. You can't always scream when you're being attacked, you might open your mouth and it doesn't come out.

 

[purenarcotic]

I've never heard of freeze, flop or friend. That's really interesting. I instinctively go for friend. In fact I can imagine a situation where I would be cheerfully sweet-talking an attacker, trying to placate them, and determinedly NOT using the taser in my pocket if I had one, because it's fine, I've got this, he'll come round eventually. Similar has happened many, many times in the past (without the taser) and my God the shame I've felt when I've realised what just happened.

It’s very common but yes, we only learn about fight or flight and it’s very unhelpful and just encourages self-blame and encourages the victim blaming of others. You weren’t to blame and have no shame to carry by befriending. Your brain was just doing what it thought it would keep you alive. But that sense of shams is why I’m so wary of self defence as a response, I don’t think the extremely careful language required around it would necessarily be used.

 

[bimble]

What’s ‘flop’ purenarcotic ?

 

[purenarcotic]

What’s ‘flop’ purenarcotic ?

Where you just go totally limp. A bit like animals playing dead iyswim. Some people will say they tried to run but their legs just kept giving way.

 

[kabbes]

I think the biological basis for the “flop” (good word!) is the body preparing itself to get injured — slow down the heart rate, prepare endorphins etc.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Sarah Everard: Met Police officers investigated over case file access

Officers who access records without a legitimate reason could be breaking the law, the Met says.

www.bbc.co.uk

30+ met officers and staff accessing the files without a reason