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Countering the arguments of anti-benefits morons ?

RaverDrew

RaverDrew

self-banned for a bit
R.I.P.
A friend of a friend on facebook has just had a small rant that £71/week is too much for JSA and that people can easily get by on a third of that. :facepalm:

I want to say something to completely pwn this fool, but his comment has got me so mad I can't even think straight :mad: :(

Urban help me think of a concise way of educating this guy that he's a foolish ignorant cunt who's got it all wrong.
 
I'm fully aware that if both of us were made redundant tomorrow we'd struggle to cover the household outgoings, let alone feed ourselves, on JSA alone. Has that man ever properly worked out his household obligations, even minus rent/mortgage and council tax, that he'd still have to pay were he suddenly unemployed and then try living on £71 minus them. I don't think he'd be demanding benefit cuts after a Christmas on that kind of income.
 
Smokedout's latest is useful in busting the myth that claimants are better off in work: The Great Benefit Cap Bullshit (the whole blog is packed with useful stuff).

This is something I wrote which summarises the economic argument for liveable benefits (for unemployed and working poor alike):

Rich people ‘invest’ (aka save) their money in property and other pre-existing assets which create no new wealth, but do create bubbles in those assets. This raises prices for everyone without adding anything to the economy. Worse, it destabilises the economy and takes money away from productive activity because so much of our national income ends up going to unproductive rentiers.

Poor people spend their money because they need every penny they can get, and they spend it on things that have to be produced by other people, thus creating jobs instead of bubbles.

All else being equal, if you increase inequality you reduce demand and the economy as a whole suffers.
Click to expand...
 
Oh yeah, you could also point out that the proportion of long-term claimants is tiny. It's risen dramatically over the last couple of years because of the recession, but DWP's own estimates of the number of "persistent work avoiders" is 80-100k people. Given that they're aiming for around 1.5 million unemployed (5% of the workforce) to keep wages low, we should frankly be grateful to the tiny minority who want to subsist on benefits - more jobs for the rest of us.
 
RaverDrew said:
He reckons it's easy, not sure if I can be arsed with this shit troll tbh. <deep breaths>
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the only way he can prove it is by doing so try that on him
also, maybe ask hime to itemise what he considers are essentials only for a 2 week period (including all bill and travel) and he should see that the maths prove him very wrong, unless he lives with his mum, they makes his food, drop and pick them from work everyday after doing all the stuff people usually do for themselves.

or go all out and ask why he thinks it is easy, why should they get less and why should already poor people get singled out for savings when already rich corps are creaming in obscene profits and dodging their moral tax duties.
 
RaverDrew said:
He reckons it's easy, not sure if I can be arsed with this shit troll tbh. <deep breaths>
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They always reckon it's easy when they're speaking from the comfort of their regular job, steady income and nice home, so there's not much point arguing with the doofus.

One thing I've learnt is that where you live can certainly make a big difference. If you're in some far flung village it's really tough to get any kind of quality of life because there's fuck all to do. At least living in a place like Brixton (or thereabouts) means there's loads of free things going on so at least you can go out.
 
If he thinks it's so cushy, why doesn't he give up work? The journos at the News of the World should have been dancing in the street when they got made redundant - all those free cars and foreign holidays at taxpayers' expense. :confused:
 
Well, it's a tenner a day for food, any travel, phone (for jobs etc), gas, leccy, house hold stuff.. Etc etc. yeah, right. It's designed to be "not nearly enough" ffs
 
I remember when I was on the dole and would often skip a meals simply because I had spent all my money on cider.
 
That's an efficient use of the cash - short-term at least. Don't care about eating, don't care about being cold, don't care about sitting in the dark, don't have to think about how shit your situation is. Perfectly rational, if extremely harmful. Poverty kills.
 
firky said:
I remember when I was on the dole and would often skip a meals simply because I had spent all my money on cider.
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Is this a suggested response for the op (it would be an excellent one) or just trufax?

Anyway, as an added bonus of skipping meals, your cider will have a much stronger effect. Double win, when you think about it.
 
I dunno Drew. I've spent a lot of time trying to do this recently on various facebook groups. It grinds you down. You never really change someone's mind, if they're coming out with that shit it means they're already pretty entrenched in their position. I'd maybe do a breakdown of what you have to spend every week on gas/electricity/food/toiletries/bus fares, then ask him how you're meant to buy clothes/shoes/birthday and Christmas presents/smart clothes for a job interview/replace the washing machine if it breaks/etc etc out of the small change. Or you could just call him a clueless cunt and leave it at that.
 
Tbf, the guys got a point though. He knows how much 10p tesco supernoodles cost. You could feed yourself on them for a day for 50p. That's £3.50 a week. If your a smoker then just hang around outside office smoking areas, picking up butts. Steal the alcoholic hand gel from hospitals for your drink. £25 a week? That's fucking generous. That's the opulence of Ancient Rome, right there.
 
:facepalm:

Gas? Leccy? Clothes? Vitamins?

What would be liveable for a week or three is not liveable for months on end. Especially when your shoes fall apart or your winter coat disintegrates.

E2A: my sarcasm detector might be on the blink, but this is Jon ... ;)
 
weepiper said:
I dunno Drew. I've spent a lot of time trying to do this recently on various facebook groups. It grinds you down. You never really change someone's mind, if they're coming out with that shit it means they're already pretty entrenched in their position.
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I think you're right.

But...

By challenging it in a persuasive and rational way, you may influence the other people that are reading his/her diatribes against the feckless, some of whom may be unsure of their position and wavering between the dark side and the light.
It's the same thing as in a pub/workplace/etc discussion. When you challenge the casual racism of an acquaintance, you're unlikely to see them do a U-turn - but you may prevent the quiet guy on the edge of the conversation from joining them.
 
Corax said:
I think you're right.

But...

By challenging it in a persuasive and rational way, you may influence the other people that are reading his/her diatribes against the feckless, some of whom may be unsure of their position and wavering between the dark side and the light.
It's the same thing as in a pub (etc) discussion. When you challenge the casual racism of an acquaintance, you're unlikely to see them do a U-turn - but you may prevent the quiet guy on the edge of the conversation from joining them.
Click to expand...

that's true. I just can't let it pass when i see it anyway so I almost always do challenge it, but it's making me feel like crap most of the time too!
 
ymu said:
That's an efficient use of the cash - short-term at least. Don't care about eating, don't care about being cold, don't care about sitting in the dark, don't have to think about how shit your situation is. Perfectly rational, if extremely harmful. Poverty kills.
Click to expand...
Depends what the skips are like and if you know to look in them. Of course the xmas we sepnt with nowt but a crate of spesh, a crate of strongbow super and four boxes of slightly out of date 1kg bars of fruit and nut was an interesting one toilet wise... :hmm:
 
weepiper said:
that's true. I just can't let it pass when i see it anyway so I almost always do challenge it, but it's making me feel like crap most of the time too!
Click to expand...

It's really hard when you are one of the people they are attacking. In recent years, the most useful allies have been people who previously thought like them and then found themselves on the dole. Lots of genuinely shocked middle-class types around these days.
 
Jon-of-arc said:
Is this a suggested response for the op (it would be an excellent one) or just trufax?

Anyway, as an added bonus of skipping meals, your cider will have a much stronger effect. Double win, when you think about it.
Click to expand...

Bit of both, was a couple of times I'd meet mates' who were working for a pint in the pub. I'd spend £3.50 on a pint just to be glad to be out of the house for a bit and see people. Unfortunately it often meant I'd have to skip a meal.
 
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