Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Sue]

Aren't parks supposed to be a safe place to go as long as you don't get too close to people, which is fairly easy in a park?

I went out earlier to the park with local friends who were walking their dogs. We kept reasonably apart and, frankly, it was very good mentally to be outside and seeing other people.

We're all wfh and have decided to meet at 830 am every day to do the same. (We live a five minute walk from each other and our local park is v close by too.)

 

[klang]

We kept reasonably apart and, frankly, it was very good mentally to be outside and seeing other people.

of course it is!!

 

[agricola]

No, there's just been footage on the news of Newcastle city centre looking busy from today.

WTF are the council and cops not going round with loudhailers announcing this?

Its a consequence of millions of people switching off mentally when "experts" tell them something, and only hearing "keep calm and carry on" whenever the Government talks about wartime conditions.

 

[xenon]

A huge number of carers aren't official, though. Would they need to go and get some kind of permit? Last thing people need to have added to their problems atm.

I'm not recommending it. We're already being told not to travel unless it's essential but if people ignore that on mass, who knows.

 

[andysays]

London is a particular hotspot, yes. Not surprising really, given how many people pass through.

Coronavirus UK: how many confirmed cases are in your area?

Not surprising given how many people actually live and work here.

Without doing any sums, it does look as if there's more cases per head of population in London than elsewhere.

 

[weltweit]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, probably but no matter, the NHS has agreed terms to takeover private hospitals which gives them a lot more beds, more nurses and doctors and more ventilators.

 

[ska invita]

Let them whine!
Sasaferrato I am sure you will agree that the only way to significantly reduce transmission of the virus is to isolate everyone at home for a period and that will bring new cases down and reduce the load on the NHS, buying time for other initiatives.

When you say For A Period, we're talking realistically about 18 months here . BBC floating 2 years on the front page website today When will the coronavirus outbreak end?

 

[Mation]

They're not

For the moment, some people still do have to go to work and others will have to, almost no matter what, unless total apocalypse. We need some, limited, public transport.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Got a link?

Nope, just saw it on Sky News.

 

[ska invita]

There are a lot of ex-squaddies, matelots and crabs who are still on the reserve. The usual service length is 22 years, but many do less, they are on the reserve until IIRC 55.

how may in total do you reckon? plus currently serving

 

[SpookyFrank]

You've not thought the consequences of that through.

I have. But it's not me running this shit show is it?

 

[klang]

For the moment, some people still do have to go to work and others will have to, almost no matter what, unless total apocalypse. We need some, limited, public transport.

the more limited the more crowded though. I don't have an answer, but maybe more of a regulation as to how many passengers per train / bus?

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, probably but no matter, the NHS has agreed terms to takeover private hospitals which gives them a lot more beds, more nurses and doctors and more ventilators.

Here are the figures:

The NHS are taking over private hospitals from next week –that’s 8,000 beds, over 1200 extra ventilators, over 10,000 nurses, over 700 doctors, over 8,000 other qualified clinical staff.

Breaking on sky News.

Beds & staff, etc., taken over at cost.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I have. But it's not me running this shit show is it?

No you haven't. Totally cancelling public transport somewhere like London puts another group of people's lives in danger. It's a mad thing to do.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I have. But it's not me running this shit show is it?

Thank Christ, we would be even more fucked.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Beds & staff, etc., taken over at cost.

And hopefully never given back.

 

[weltweit]

When you say For A Period, we're talking realistically about 18 months here . BBC floating 2 years on the front page website today When will the coronavirus outbreak end?

My understanding is that initially a lockdown could significantly reduce cases. Once that has been done and the NHS sees workload reducing some relaxation might be permitted, if cases increase again lockdown again, and so on .. and that seems all we can hope for until ideally one of the candidate vaccines comes through and gets into volume production.

However as you say, this is longer term, it seems unlikely a vaccine will be available in less then 12-14 months or more.

 

[chilango]

For the moment, some people still do have to go to work and others will have to, almost no matter what, unless total apocalypse. We need some, limited, public transport.

I'm not saying we don't. Just pointing out the logic behind the call.

 

[Mation]

the more limited the more crowded though. I don't have an answer, but maybe more of a regulation as to how many passengers per train / bus?

Didn't prove so this week, at least. In the morning I travel very early, and numbers were typically low on the train itself, and fewer in the ticket hall. (I guess an artefact of which carriage people usually tend towards?)

On the way home, earlier than usual, it was more crowded, but nothing like what you'd expect of a normal rush hour. No one standing.

 

[klang]

Didn't prove so this week, at least. In the morning I travel very early, and numbers were typically low on the train itself, and fewer in the ticket hall. (I guess an artefact of which carriage people usually tend towards?)

On the way home, earlier than usual, it was more crowded, but nothing like what you'd expect of a normal rush hour. No one standing.

ok, that's something i guess.
i don't travel by tube btw.

 

[campanula]

I am sure I am stating the obvious here but there are no scientists who are politically neutral - the neo-liberal basis of R&D, privatisation, the conflation of business and academia has left us with a scientific community, at least in the top echelons, which is in thrall to the pursuit of profit/power/shareholder value above all else. Every single aspect of health care has been skewed to serve an agenda which is not predicated on the public good. During the Sars epidemic, I recall reading how research was being obstructed because of huge uncertainties over patents, ownership of genetic material, suppression of data....etc etc. I think we should not venerate science as something objective, pure and even utilitarian. I doubt there is a single senior scientist who is notin bed with business...with all the inevitable bias.
So no, not really surprised at the craven attitude of some of these scientists - and not buying some propaganda and deference thing.
Of course, this does not apply to the vast majority of health workers but scrutiny of the role of govt. advisors will, I think, expose the structural deficiencies when science is predicated on profit before people.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Went for a run earlier. Obviously tried to keep distance, crossing road or running into road or onto grass verge etc to keep healthy space away from passers by. But amazed how so many seemed oblivious, making no effort to move over, big groups. Park was rammed including kids playground with loads of kids going on slides and swings etc, so multiple hands on equipment. On field there was an organised game of football, in proper kit with a ref. Apparently snowdon and all the beaches rammed with queues.

Incredible really.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just how fucking thick are people, especially in London.

Yep, all Londoners are fucking thick. Every last one of us.

 

[platinumsage]

Went for a run earlier. Obviously tried to keep distance, crossing road or running into road or onto grass verge etc to keep healthy space away from passers by. But amazed how so many seemed oblivious, making no effort to move over, big groups. Park was rammed including kids playground with loads of kids going on slides and swings etc, so multiple hands on equipment. On field there was an organised game of football, in proper kit with a ref. Apparently snowdon and all the beaches rammed with queues.

Incredible really.

I think we just have to accept that thousands more will die here than in countries where everyone takes it seriously.

 

[Treacle Toes]

the more limited the more crowded though. I don't have an answer, but maybe more of a regulation as to how many passengers per train / bus?

Mate, there is next to no one on the streets, trains, buses...been like that for days. The density is around shops IME.

 

[elbows]

As for the other countries have handled this better, Johnson needed to listen to the scientists. Have people actually looked at the table elbows made? The UK is not an outlier for Western Europe, it is following the same trend as Spain, France and Italy (and Germany by number of cases, though not by deaths).

I'll stick the next version of it in this thread, just waiting for one or two numbers for today. I've added the Netherlands to it since I last did it.

We probably need to wait 2 weeks or more before we can start to judge some differences between countries in terms of their policies once they all went past their shared approach to the initial phase, and started doing different sorts of lockdowns with different timing and levels of enforcement.

Other factors may yet obscure such comparisons though. I'm really shitting it that the UKs numbers will look bad even compared to Italy because of our particular issues with capacity, staff, testing, and inadequate PPE, before we even start to consider the effects of the behaviour of the population (and the political decisions that affected the when and how much of such behavioural changes).

 

[Treacle Toes]

Went for a run earlier. Obviously tried to keep distance, crossing road or running into road or onto grass verge etc to keep healthy space away from passers by. But amazed how so many seemed oblivious, making no effort to move over, big groups. Park was rammed including kids playground with loads of kids going on slides and swings etc, so multiple hands on equipment. On field there was an organised game of football, in proper kit with a ref. Apparently snowdon and all the beaches rammed with queues.

Incredible really.

Is Snowdon a London Borough? It must be.

 

[nogojones]

No you haven't. Totally cancelling public transport somewhere like London puts another group of people's lives in danger. It's a mad thing to do.

Can't they all just cycle to work?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yep, all Londoners are fucking thick. Every last one of us.

It's fairly clear the reference to London was in respect of how it's clearly spreading faster there, as expected, but if you want to admit to being thick, fair enough.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Can't they all just cycle to work?

We might have to. I luckily have a bike, many don't and just as many live quite a distance away from work, even Londoners.