Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[lazythursday]

yet more PM-excusing drivel from him:



Its the scientists that were wrong, apparently. Also, "millennials" (despite that Wetherspoons cretin and the likes of Humphries telling his Mail readership that he'll be defying the advice to stay home):



Anyone to blame but them. That someone who claims to be a journalist is putting out this absolute rubbish is a disgrace.

I thought that article read more like an attack on Cummings from some other cabinet minister (Gove?) rather than a defence of Johnson. It seems quite clear the government scientists fucked this up as well as the politicians anyway.

 

[cupid_stunt]

they are no different in any other larger city eg Munich or Berlin.

OK, all major city dwellers are thick.

Being serious, there's far more cases in London than anywhere else in the UK, these twats need to wake-up.

 

[magneze]

There's lots of space but having the kiosks open seems a bit stupid. Inevitably there are loads of people there.

 

[planetgeli]

they are no different in any other larger city eg Munich or Berlin.

I just had an email from friend in Dusseldorf which unfortunately confirms this. All the same problems, bog roll etc, and if anything she paints an even worse picture of actual fights in supermarkets.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Just heard a snippet that the mobile companies may be asked to track whether people are complying with social distancing. I know in China there was a lot of surveillance, I suppose one could expect the UK Gov to enquire about it, how though, and but really?

talking to chinese colleagues the Chinese government had absolute control over their people using the technical infrastructure. Each residential block has a perimeter and monitored. If you got caught out with a temp you were literally whisked off to a clinic no mercy. The Chinese boss here explained that he hadn’t touched cashfor ages everything is done electronically including monitoring the population access to buildings

Testing and tracing was immediate

a million miles from this fucked up dither, suck it and see bullshit

 

[klang]

I just had an email from friend in Dusseldorf which unfortunately confirms this. All the same problems, bog roll etc, and if anything she paints an even worse picture of actual fights in supermarkets.

was moaning to friends and family (in Munich and Berlin) a lot over the last few days, and they painted a very similar picture. In Munich, even when shops had to close at 3pm and playgrounds were shut, the beer gardens remained open and people had a jolly good time. They're on a partial lockdown now, only one person out per household at a time.

 

[bellaozzydog]

but surely at the cost of level of state surveillance that's a massive imposition and hard to roll back?

yup

 

[weltweit]

From where we are now, WFH, no unessential journeys, various self isolating, NHS under pressure, pubs resteraunts cafés gyms etc closed, the tube and public transport still running, what are the next steps Johnson could be considering?

 

[weltweit]

talking to chinese colleagues the Chinese government had absolute control over their people using the technical infrastructure. Each residential block has a perimeter and monitored. If you got caught out with a temp you were literally whisked off to a clinic no mercy. The Chinese boss here explained that he hadn’t touched cashfor ages everything is done electronically including monitoring the population access to buildings

Testing and tracing was immediate

a million miles from this fucked up dither, suck it and see bullshit

Sounds to me this is what we need here. No mucking about ..

 

[Sasaferrato]

I just had an email from friend in Dusseldorf which unfortunately confirms this. All the same problems, bog roll etc, and if anything she paints an even worse picture of actual fights in supermarkets.

Blimey! That is a shock. I lived in Germany for over seven years, and found it to be quite a formal and very polite society.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The John Lewis Partnership has announced they are closing all their JL branded stores*, I expect others to follow, or the government will end-up forcing them to close anyway.

* not their Waitrose stores.

John Lewis closes all 50 stores across Britain amid coronavirus pandemic

The firm will temporarily close its 50 department stores at the close of business on Monday due to the outbreak, marking the first time in the company's history that it has shut its doors to customers

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Sasaferrato]

Sounds to me this is what we need here. No mucking about ..

Conservative and Labour MPs and David fucking Davis* are already whining about the steps you suggest being way over the top.

Tory backbenchers plan rebellion against Boris Johnson's plans

Tory backbenchers will stage a rebellion next week against the Prime Minister's plans to introduce emergency laws to help fight coronavirus.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*Dickhead in chief, deserves a special mention.

 

[SpookyFrank]

From where we are now, WFH, no unessential journeys, various self isolating, NHS under pressure, pubs resteraunts cafés gyms etc closed, the tube and public transport still running, what are the next steps Johnson could be considering?

Close all shops apart from food shops. Kibosh public transport altogether.

 

[weltweit]

Labour MPs and David fucking Davis are already whining about the steps you suggest being way over the top.

Let them whine!

Sasaferrato I am sure you will agree that the only way to significantly reduce transmission of the virus is to isolate everyone at home for a period and that will bring new cases down and reduce the load on the NHS, buying time for other initiatives.

 

[elbows]

Sounds to me this is what we need here. No mucking about ..

Even if they will consider going for the all out virus suppression strategy, capacity of all manner of things must first be built up. Testing is the most obvious, most approaches need that, and initial capacity increases really should be directed at NHS workers.

I'm also going to stop making predictions about the future government response, public attitudes etc until we see what impact the looming NHS nightmare first wave capacity crisis has. As we have seen in recent times, a lot can change in a week at the moment.

 

[weltweit]

Close all shops apart from food shops. Kibosh public transport altogether.

I would agree with that. China I think only permitted food shops and pharmacies to be open, and only one person per household was permitted out to buy food / medicine per day. We should be doing that now imho.

 

[belboid]

Kibosh public transport altogether.

how would essential workers get to work?

 

[bellaozzydog]

Sounds to me this is what we need here. No mucking about ..

we just don’t have the level of oppressive routine monitoring China has.

If Boris stopped “hoping” and “suggesting” and “taking it on the chin” two weeks back we could had closed it down more. Some back room douche nozzle theorist had very peculiar presumptions of what the great U.K. unwashed would or wouldn’t “stand for”

it needed fuck off strong leadership and direction. We got neither and the British bulldog stiff upper lip, Union Jack, two world wars and one World Cup mentality went about their business

like the amuricans who are gonna realise that their peculiar definition of freedom Is flawed and they can’t kill a virus with an M4 semi auto rifle

my despair is strong tonight

 

[SpookyFrank]

I would agree with that. China I think only permitted food shops and pharmacies to be open, and only one person per household was permitted out to buy food / medicine per day. We should be doing that now imho.

There is no capability to enforce this and a large enough chunk of the population will ignore it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Let them whine!

Sasaferrato I am sure you will agree that the only way to significantly reduce transmission of the virus is to isolate everyone at home for a period and that will bring new cases down and reduce the load on the NHS, buying time for other initiatives.

I do indeed agree, and am saddened but not surprised by the clowns in the Commons. I've long felt that there should be an IQ test to be an MP, so many of them are fuckwits with zero real life experience. This applies to both sides of the house.

 

[Sasaferrato]

There is no capability to enforce this and a large enough chunk of the population will ignore it.

The capacity to enforce it can be called up at quite short notice.

 

[binka]

Been over to the retail park today and homebase, Argos, pets at home, hobby craft, the range and b&m are all open the only one that's shut is tk maxx

 

[agricola]

I thought that article read more like an attack on Cummings from some other cabinet minister (Gove?) rather than a defence of Johnson. It seems quite clear the government scientists fucked this up as well as the politicians anyway.

Yes, but the criticism is limited to him and the PM believing "the scientists" and following their advice.

The possibility that it might have been them (the political leadership) who decided to let the virus go through the country (take it on the chin, avoid economic damage and we'd be left with a healthier population afterwards) isn't even acknowledged, even to the point of not mentioning that "the scientists" might have presented other options (lockdown, partial lockdown, take it on the chin) (edit) and asked them to pick one - which is something that they almost certainly would have done.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The capacity to enforce it can be called up at quite short notice.

If you mean squaddies it's probably them that's been keeping the pubs in business.

 

[Sasaferrato]

If you mean squaddies it's probably them that's been keeping the pubs in business.

There are a lot of ex-squaddies, matelots and crabs who are still on the reserve. The usual service length is 22 years, but many do less, they are on the reserve until IIRC 55.

 

[two sheds]

was moaning to friends and family (in Munich and Berlin) a lot over the last few days, and they painted a very similar picture. In Munich, even when shops had to close at 3pm and playgrounds were shut, the beer gardens remained open and people had a jolly good time. They're on a partial lockdown now, only one person out per household at a time.

Brings its own risks I'd have thought - only needs one person with cv per household to spread it round to other households?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Police patrol boat on the Thames, using their speakers to blast out Monty Python's 'always look on the bright side of life.'

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yes, but the criticism is limited to him and the PM believing "the scientists" and following their advice.

The possibility that it might have been them (the political leadership) who decided to let the virus go through the country (take it on the chin, avoid economic damage and we'd be left with a healthier population afterwards) isn't even acknowledged, even to the point of not mentioning that "the scientists" might have presented other options (lockdown, partial lockdown, take it on the chin) (edit) and asked them to pick one - which is something that they almost certainly would have done.

If the scientists fucked this up, what can the PM do? It seems that the term 'expert' is a very movable feast indeed. OTOH, when you are dealing with something where actual knowledge is like hens teeth, maybe 'best guess' is all that is available.

 

[lazythursday]

If the scientists fucked this up, what can the PM do? It seems that the term 'expert' is a very movable feast indeed. OTOH, when you are dealing with something where actual knowledge is like hens teeth, maybe 'best guess' is all that is available.

There was plenty of knowledge but some of the experts and politicians thought they knew better, by the looks of it.

 

[agricola]

If the scientists fucked this up, what can the PM do? It seems that the term 'expert' is a very movable feast indeed. OTOH, when you are dealing with something where actual knowledge is like hens teeth, maybe 'best guess' is all that is available.

To begin to accept that as a possibility, you have to ignore the fact (which even Wickham admits) that there was no consensus amongst themselves as well as the fact that the WHO and the rest of the world were all doing something different. It is really difficult to believe that "the scientists" would have not mentioned the alternatives (even though there was no consensus amongst them and other countries were doing something different) and that the PM / Cummings didn't know that there were alternatives and that other countries were doing different things, and just let them get on with it - when "letting them get on with it" is emphatically not what has been done anywhere else in government since he became PM (as Javid's sacking proved).

Then you also have to accept that "the scientists" would have somehow have come up with a notion of "herd immunity" which was not especially well supported by the science, and knew how to get the PM's supporters to come out a few weekends ago and all say what a clever idea it was, even to the extent of one of them saying they'd be saving money by culling the elderly.

There is however an alternative theory - which is that a group of people, some of whom we know are already attracted by the idea of eugenics and almost all of whom have a high opinion of money, were asked to make a decision between "taking it on the chin" and a low cost economically and a high cost in lives, or forms of lockdown which would cost a lot economically but fewer lives.

I think the fact that the creatures of this government have all been going around blaming the science should tell you which theory is correct.