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Characterising UKIP?

chilango

chilango

Hypothetical Wanker
Be interesting to discuss what type of Party/movement UKIP actually are (or are becoming so that we can be a little more accurate than "far-right" "racist" etc.

For me, at first glance they seem to have a lot in common with the Lega Nord. With Brussels replacing Rome and a mythical UK replacing Narnia (sorry, Padania), a similar harnessing of anti-politics and populism alongside the cruder racism and anti-immigrant sloganeering, yet at the same time appealing to natural consituency of both the old Left and the old Right.

Just my initial impressions.

Hopefully others can bring more insight, cos I'm getting very frustrated with the lazy labelling going on.
 
I posted this on one of the other threads:

I was thinking of posting something about how the backbone of UKIP are the people who would have been the backbone of the Tories at local level in the old days, and speculating on where they might move ideologically.

I very much doubt if El Farago has been reading Aufheben, but that does make me think of Winston Peters who left the New Zealand National Party back in the 80s to form his own New Zealand First party, which is (very roughly) socially conservative and (vaguely) economically centre-left.

Peters is the gadfly of Kiwi politics (does that sound right gabi and peterkro?), and he has been able to influence the formation of governments over the years, even if his NZF remains small. He has been unable to turn back the clock to pre-neoliberal Aotearoa/NZ (he's also half-Maori, but doesn't like to talk about it much).

E2A: And oh yes, Peters will happily appeal to racism and anti-immigration fears to win votes:
http://yournz.org/2014/05/19/winston-peters-stoking-immigration-fears/

The big difference is that NZ1st was very much "The Winston Peters Show", and that he was a political "big beast" before leaving the National Party (Kiwi Tories, and how) and striking out on his own.
 
aren't they just a bog standard slightly to the right of the tories party? i dont know why everyone's getting so upset about them tbh, the tories have been saying this sort of stuff for years.
 
Stolen from a friend of mine via Facebook which sum up UKIP for me:
‘If an algorithm created a political leader based on Sun and Mail articles it would be Nigel Farage', says writer Musa Okwanga.

Elections tomorrow, and UKIP dominate the headlines. The remains of the left shriek 'fascists!' on social media but offer no resonant alternative. England's shift to the right demonstrates the abject failure of the left to respond to capitalism's latest crisis.

UKIP are divisive & dishonest, but they aren't fascist. They aren't even especially racist. They're normally racist - like small town pubs & the masons & the countryside. Farage doesn't hate foreigners - he hates the undeserving poor who make him feel uncomfortable, and the red tape that stops the rich taking even more money from the people who actually created it. And he craves the approval of the upper echelons who have always rejected him.

‘Politics is the shadow the economy casts on society’. The economy's fucked. The unfettered capitalism that caused the banking crisis is to blame, but influential papers have spent the last five years blaming immigrants & the undeserving poor, and some voters are responding. Farage's dog whistle 'you know what & who I mean' attracts some genuinely hateful cranks, but generally UKIP voters are normal Englishers who don't feel comfortable in the economy or in multicultural society, feel more comfortable blaming different foreigners than familiar bankers, and really don't care if you call them racists. And calling them racists, shouting & pointing, reinforces the view that UKIP are different. Rather than just another dandruffy split from the Tories.

I won't be voting UKIP tomorrow. But I won't be voting UKIP because I don't vote for right-wing neo-liberals, not because the middle classes have decided they're exceptionally & unacceptably racist.
 
well the wing of a tory party that are annoyed by the modern conservatives lip service to social liberalism and perceived centrist drift
 
juice_terry said:
Stolen from a friend of mine via Facebook which sum up UKIP for me:
‘If an algorithm created a political leader based on Sun and Mail articles it would be Nigel Farage', says writer Musa Okwanga.

Elections tomorrow, and UKIP dominate the headlines. The remains of the left shriek 'fascists!' on social media but offer no resonant alternative. England's shift to the right demonstrates the abject failure of the left to respond to capitalism's latest crisis.

UKIP are divisive & dishonest, but they aren't fascist. They aren't even especially racist. They're normally racist - like small town pubs & the masons & the countryside. Farage doesn't hate foreigners - he hates the undeserving poor who make him feel uncomfortable, and the red tape that stops the rich taking even more money from the people who actually created it. And he craves the approval of the upper echelons who have always rejected him.

‘Politics is the shadow the economy casts on society’. The economy's fucked. The unfettered capitalism that caused the banking crisis is to blame, but influential papers have spent the last five years blaming immigrants & the undeserving poor, and some voters are responding. Farage's dog whistle 'you know what & who I mean' attracts some genuinely hateful cranks, but generally UKIP voters are normal Englishers who don't feel comfortable in the economy or in multicultural society, feel more comfortable blaming different foreigners than familiar bankers, and really don't care if you call them racists. And calling them racists, shouting & pointing, reinforces the view that UKIP are different. Rather than just another dandruffy split from the Tories.

I won't be voting UKIP tomorrow. But I won't be voting UKIP because I don't vote for right-wing neo-liberals, not because the middle classes have decided they're exceptionally & unacceptably racist.
Click to expand...


I don't think UKIP will dominate the headlines on Monday (counting takes days) They will do well but there has been a great deal of expectation management and media hype. Last EUros headlines like this were around



000a%20Mail-018%20Mosely.jpg
which in the end actually helped UKIP. Think the headlines will be about a swap in Green and Lib Dem fortunes
 
gosub said:
I don't think UKIP will dominate the headlines on Monday (counting takes days) They will do well but there has been a great deal of expectation management and media hype. Last EUros headlines like this were around http://www.eureferendum.com/images/000a Mail-018 Mosely.jpg: http://www.eureferendum.com/images/000a Mail-018 Mosely.jpg which in the end actually helped UKIP. Think the headlines will be about a swap in Green and Lib Dem fortunes
Click to expand...
What a mad thing to say. Absolutely bizarre. The headlines are written already - no matter what the outcome. Crazy stuff. Greens and lib-dems ffs.

I'll come back on UKIP ch later.
 
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8ball said:
I might well agree if I knew more about those parties.
Click to expand...

NZF's big base of support is among older voters utterly confused about the way NZ has changed since the 1980s. As for the Lega Nord, their goal of "Padania" is fantasy enough to qualify them for 8ball's designation.
 
phildwyer said:
Poujadiste.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you suggest that, a City AM article a while back whining about how people actually want some control over vital industries, transport infrastructure and health accused UKIP of being Poujadiste.

http://www.cityam.com/article/1383618852/there-sadly-mass-support-nationalisation-and-price-controls

By 48-43 per cent, even those intending to vote Tory don’t back the privatisation; among Ukip voters, it’s 67-25. Centre-right voters in the UK are not all classical liberal supporters of capitalism; in fact, many are poujadistes or economic nationalists.
Click to expand...
 
J Ed said:
Interesting that you suggest that, a City AM article a while back whining about how people actually want some control over vital industries, transport infrastructure and health accused UKIP of being Poujadiste.

http://www.cityam.com/article/1383618852/there-sadly-mass-support-nationalisation-and-price-controls
Click to expand...
My early characterisations were of UKIP as poujadist. I now see those comparisons are nonsense. The pre-capitalist nature of the french economy at that point - massive agricultural sector, small villages, based on local contracts and local patrimony, small businesses and artisans based on this stich up - all this challenged by modernising capitalism. UKIP support those changes and the fear of that change. To do anything else in the UK after 1812 is a a joke. To lazily characterise it as poujadist only indicates passing academic interest. Not you - but phil
 
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chilango said:
Be interesting to discuss what type of Party/movement UKIP actually are (or are becoming so that we can be a little more accurate than "far-right" "racist" etc.
Click to expand...

Really good thread idea.

I think that UKIP are supremely a party of our "post-political democracy" times. When 'ordinary' citizens feel that, which ever party is elected to govern, the policies will remain unchanged, the opportunity for a populist party emerges. Carrying no "baggage" or responsibility they can exploit widespread post-recession disaffection with the retreat to centrist managerialism, and harvest votes from across the old political spectrum. In characterising themselves as a challenge to the 'established political elite' they appeal as a sort of "sub-contracted" means of conducting the degraded form of "audience democracy" that is often characterised as apathy. On a more basic level they are (relatively) new and therefore represent the political panacea that is "change", and offer the easy prospect of politics without too many policies.

In conclusion, I think they're quite an effective and interesting political phenomena. Yes they're right-wing, pro-capital, neo-liberal, thatcherite, nasty, socially conservative, nationalistic, populist, prepared to appeal to latent xenophobia and rely on a large % of the electorate voting against their own interests, but they must offer some lessons to those who seek to rapidly build a political party from scratch.
 
I know a couple of UKIP voters who were Conservative voters. After talking with them I just don't understand why they don't vote for at least the BNP. I've asked them why, and they say that the BNP is too extremist; but if you heard their views you would think that the BNP is too moderate for them. Seriously!
 
Kesher said:
I know a couple of UKIP voters who were Conservative voters. After talking with them I just don't understand why they don't vote for at least the BNP. I've asked them why, and they say that the BNP is too extremist; but if you heard their views you would think that the BNP is too moderate for them. Seriously!
Click to expand...

Repugnant though their views may be, you've mentioned 2 political parties that they won't vote for and 1 that they will. How does that help us characterise UKIP?
 
brogdale said:
I like a pint (of real ale) as much as the next man, (and I'm not fond of flying), does that make me a UKIP supporter....or a pub bore?
Click to expand...
the point i was making is that he has pint after pint after pint and then it's no great surprise that when he does something stupid, as he will, he comes down to earth with a bump

i have you down as borderline camra bore
 
chilango said:
Be interesting to discuss what type of Party/movement UKIP actually are (or are becoming so that we can be a little more accurate than "far-right" "racist" etc.

For me, at first glance they seem to have a lot in common with the Lega Nord. With Brussels replacing Rome and a mythical UK replacing Narnia (sorry, Padania), a similar harnessing of anti-politics and populism alongside the cruder racism and anti-immigrant sloganeering, yet at the same time appealing to natural consituency of both the old Left and the old Right.

Just my initial impressions.

Hopefully others can bring more insight, cos I'm getting very frustrated with the lazy labelling going on.
Click to expand...

Lega Nord is a strictly regional party with all that Padania bollocks. UKIP, the clue is in the name... If anything English Democrats would be closer to the Lega Nord from a regional perspective although in a way Farage's mouth does resemble post stroke Bossi.

Grillo ("I'm beyond Hitler") is more of an italian Farage with added populism and shady backers Casaleggio in particular. At least that's how it seems to me :)
 
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