Champagne & Fromage opening in Brixton soon

[Rushy]

It's okay people, you can still have a glass of Champagne without feeling like an evil oppressor!

I'm not saying anyone who drinks Champagne does so intentionally to act or feel superior, I'm saying the drink is so heavily loaded with subliminal associations of 'success'
(Success as defined by Western neo-liberal ideology) that the appeal of it is principally I n what it signifies, rather than the liquid itself or the alcohol content.

You might just want to try it, innocently, and without being mean or showy, and that's allright, but somewhere below the surface is a devisive endorsement.

I remember a party where a few guys were hoofing cocaine off a coffee table while also discussing how mad it was that someone is shot dead in Mexico every 15 minutes. These guys weren't stood on the border with AK-47's aimed at Mexican heads, but they are endorsing.

There are plenty of folk who don't like inequality who will still pop into C&F for some futile fromage, so what, in the scheme it doesn't matter I suppose. I choose not to partake.

Sure. I've read all about the ethics of Coltan mining in the congo on my PDA.
I've wondered whether coffee beans are Fairtrade and whether Fairtrade is really such a great deal for peasant workers over a flat white.

Actually, in contrast, grape picking in the UK/France has its faults and its bad guys but in general you are buying a responsibly made product - particularly if you are buying from small retailers who have limited purchasing clout and specialise in buying from small producers.

Yes - the massive corporate branding of champagne has made the product "exclusive". But if anything C+F seems to be contributing towards breaking that down. Helping explode the myth that the corporate Champagne superbrands are so damned special.

It's good that we question things. But singling out champagne drinkers is a lazy distraction. To varying degrees most people could afford £8 for a glass of champagne as a treat if they wanted. Many, like me, would usually choose not to - it just does not seem like good value to me. And there are a small number who could not whether they wanted to or not.

But people who have a £40 weekly food budget do not spend £2.70 or £5.40 for two /day on barrista made coffee - an entirely non essential. Or £4something on a pint. They are excluded full stop. Complaining about champagne drinkers from the comfort of a wifi enabled pub or coffee shop is already a conspicuous privilege not available to all and attempts to justify one over the other seems to have more to do with justifying the complainants' own consumption patterns than genuine concern for the excluded. Throwing stones from inside glass fronted coffee shops, and all that...

 

[jezg]

To clarify, are you accusing the people who have posted on this thread that they've had a look in C&F and/or bought something there, of doing so because they want to derive pleasure from a sense of superiority?

Because I think that what I and others find irritating about some of the stuff being posted on this thread is that it's just lazy caricaturisation, of a kind that wouldn't be tolerated directed at other targets. An assumption that the only possible reason people might go there is to flaunt their wealth and lord it up over the neighbourhood poor.

And then when we try and make this point, certain posters then try and twist things to make it seem like we don't give a toss about the changes happening in Brixton or the poverty that exists nearby, and so on.

Hi
Didn't you do something "in a similar vein" in post #2075 where you caricatured Brixton Brewery as a "yuppie" brewery? I'm not sure what you've based this on at all.

 

[Rushy]

Just to add - please don't take my argument above as an endorsement of C+F. After the twattish service I received and justification of it from the owner (yes he is abusive but he is a cheese genius off the telly), I'll stick to Cannon and Cannon and Market Row wines when I want something a bit special.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Hi
Didn't you do something "in a similar vein" in post #2075 where you caricatured Brixton Brewery as a "yuppie" brewery? I'm not sure what you've based this on at all.

It was meant to be a parallel with editor's recent Brixton Beers. Cos editor doesn't like yuppies, right, but that apparently looks a bit yuppyish if you squint at it in a certain light.

 

[editor]

It's good that we question things. But singling out champagne drinkers is a lazy distraction.

I didn't realise the argument was about "singling out champagne drinkers." I thought it was about the socio-economic impact of an exclusive, expensive champagne bar opening up in a traditional market, and the impact it may have on the future direction of the market, and whether it may accelerate the growing poor/rich divide in the area. That's my areas of concern anyway.

I have no particular opinion about champagne drinkers, although I personally would feel rather uncomfortable drinking it in such an environment.

 

[editor]

Hi
Didn't you do something "in a similar vein" in post #2075 where you caricatured Brixton Brewery as a "yuppie" brewery? I'm not sure what you've based this on at all.

For the record, the Brixton Brewery came along to our beer launch and immediately offered to help out. They seem like nice people to me.

 

[TruXta]

I didn't realise the argument was about "singling out champagne drinkers." I thought it was about the socio-economic impact of an exclusive, expensive champagne bar opening up in a traditional market, and the impact it may have on the future direction of the market, and whether it may accelerate the growing poor/rich divide in the area. That's my areas of concern anyway.

I have no particular opinion about champagne drinkers, although I personally would feel rather uncomfortable drinking it in such an environment.

Isn't it a bit early to judge that impact? It might not have very much at all - seems to me it's a bit premature to say it has. As a symbol of gentrification it has already had a bit of impact if this place is a yardstick for anything at all (which might or might not be the case).

 

[editor]

Isn't it a bit early to judge that impact?

Yes, and I tried to word my post to say that.

I don't think it's ever too early to start the discussion though!

 

[TruXta]

Yes, and I tried to word my post to say that.

I don't think it's ever too early to start the discussion though!

Of course not. The problem - which I'd say is evident in the various strands of this thread - is the wildly varying yardsticks people use to measure these impacts. Not to mention conflating the symbolic effect with actual economical effects their establishment has on other traders, traders outside the market and finally on the economy of the entire area. Until someone takes a long hard look at actual data we can huff and puff all we like and produce nothing but more hot air.

 

[Onket]

I didn't realise the argument was about "singling out champagne drinkers." I thought it was about the socio-economic impact of an exclusive, expensive champagne bar opening up in a traditional market,

Brixton Village has not been a traditional market for quite some time. I appreciate this is the straw that broke the camel's back, for you, but you, and many on these boards, have been a strong supporter of many other ventures over the years which have directly brought us, and the gentrification, to where it is now.

 

[editor]

Of course not. The problem - which I'd say is evident in the various strands of this thread - is the wildly varying yardsticks people use to measure these impacts. Not to mention conflating the symbolic effect with actual economical effects their establishment has on other traders, traders outside the market and finally on the economy of the entire area. Until someone takes a long hard look at actual data we can huff and puff all we like and produce nothing but more hot air.

I will say one thing: nothing has polarised opinion more than the opening of Champagne and Fromage so it's clear that it represents something more than just another market opening.

This thread has been seen nearly 60k times, and the articles on BrixtonBuzz have had huge traffic too.

 

[TruXta]

I will say one thing: nothing has polarised opinion more than the opening of Champagne and Fromage so it's clear that it represents something more than just another market opening.

This thread has been seen nearly 60k times, and the articles on BrixtonBuzz have had huge traffic too.

Could be true, could be (at least partially) an effect of what I think is a greater usage of/interest in digital coverage of all things Brixton. That said - as this thread shows, C+F has become a bit of a perfect storm. It'll be interesting to see the market a year from now.

 

[Yelkcub]

But people who have a £40 weekly food budget do not spend £2.70 or £5.40 for two /day on barrista made coffee - an entirely non essential. Or £4something on a pint. They are excluded full stop. Complaining about champagne drinkers from the comfort of a wifi enabled pub or coffee shop is already a conspicuous privilege not available to all and attempts to justify one over the other seems to have more to do with justifying the complainants' own consumption patterns than genuine concern for the excluded. Throwing stones from inside glass fronted coffee shops, and all that...

That's it, in a nutshell.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Could be true, could be (at least partially) an effect of what I think is a greater usage of/interest in digital coverage of all things Brixton. That said - as this thread shows, C+F has become a bit of a perfect storm. It'll be interesting to see the market a year from now.

Yep. It's visibly a place that signals likely rent rises. But it isn't necessarily the lead indicator of such things - as noted above, sharp hikes in rents leads to a proliferation of mobile phone shops as much as anything, which I would argue has a far more detrimental effect on a shopping district.

 

[TruXta]

Yep. It's visibly a place that signals likely rent rises. But it isn't necessarily the lead indicator of such things - as noted above, sharp hikes in rents leads to a proliferation of mobile phone shops as much as anything, which I would argue has a far more detrimental effect on a shopping district.

But as has been said in this thread (and others before it) - one can simultaneously hate the proliferation of phone/betting/payday loan shops AND places like C+F/Honest Burger/Whine Parlour.

 

[Chilavert]

I will say one thing: nothing has polarised opinion more than the opening of Champagne and Fromage so it's clear that it represents something more than just another market opening.

This thread has been seen nearly 60k times, and the articles on BrixtonBuzz have had huge traffic too.

Has the opening really polarised opinions though (on here at least)?

I'm not reading back through all 81 pages, but my view was that some people are opposed to Champers and Cheesy-Pops entirely and others remain to be convinced that some of the criticism that it has received is entirely justified.

For opinion to be polarised imo you'd need people to be welcoming the arrival of C&F with open arms and I'm not sure that has been the case (on here at least).

Edited to add: for me the obvious parallel is with the opening of Foxtons; both are obvious summaries of the gentrification of the area.

 

[TruXta]

Has the opening really polarised opinions though (on here at least)?

I'm not reading back through all 81 pages, but my view was that some people are opposed to Champers and Cheesy-Pops entirely and others remain to be convinced that some of the criticism that it has received is entirely justified.

For opinion to be polarised imo you'd need people to be welcoming the arrival of C&F with open arms and I'm not sure that has been the case (on here at least).

Going on the reports from posters passing by it seems to be have been welcomed with open arms and wallets by many a customer (some of which have posted on this thread).

 

[jezg]

Brixton Village has not been a traditional market for quite some time. I appreciate this is the straw that broke the camel's back, for you, but you, and many on these boards, have been a strong supporter of many other ventures over the years which have directly brought us, and the gentrification, to where it is now.

Agreed, Coffee shops seem to have some sort of force field that shields them from these types of arguments. Am thinking of Goodbench, Federation etc.

 

[editor]

For opinion to be polarised imo you'd need people to be welcoming the arrival of C&F with open arms and I'm not sure that has been the case (on here at least).

You'll find no shortage of people who have positively welcomed the opening of the place. Not so much here perhaps, but there's plenty of online comments and articles in print thinking the place is a fabulous addition to Brixton Village. This week's Lambeth Weekend, for example, rather disappointingly, praises the place to the hilt.

 

[Yelkcub]

This thread has been seen nearly 60k times, and the articles on BrixtonBuzz have had huge traffic too.

Are they unique views? I.e. Does every time I open this thread count as one of those 60k?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But as has been said in this thread (and others before it) - one can simultaneously hate the proliferation of phone/betting/payday loan shops AND places like C+F/Honest Burger/Whine Parlour.

As long as people are clear about what it is they are hating and why, that's ok. I'm not so sure many people are that clear about it.

 

[Chilavert]

You'll find no shortage of people who have positively welcomed the opening of the place. Not so much here perhaps, but you'll find no shortage of online comments and article in print thinking the place is a great idea for Brixton. This week's Lambeth Weekend, for example, rather disappointingly, praises the place to the hilt.

Rightly or wrongly I only use this place as my electronic guide to Brixton.

Truxta: I've only walked past the place on a couple of occasions; once to see the demo and the other on Saturday lunchtime as I was explaining the debate on here to my girlfriend and it wasn't busy.

I might ask the locals in the Elm for their views the next time I swing by for a pint though.

 

[editor]

Are they unique views? I.e. Does every time I open this thread count as one of those 60k?

Does it matter? It still adds up to a shedload of views.

 

[TruXta]

As long as people are clear about what it is they are hating and why, that's ok. I'm not so sure many people are that clear about it.

I don't see what's all that wrong about general dislike of a place like C+F, for instance.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't see what's all that wrong about general dislike of a place like C+F, for instance.

That's fine. I dislike it for its promotion of fois gras and refusal to sell any alcoholic drink other than Champagne, the first of which I think is morally wrong, the second poncey and snobby. But certain kinds of good food are expensive, and I don't hate it simply because it concentrates on those things.

 

[TruXta]

That's fine. I dislike it for its promotion of fois gras and refusal to sell any alcoholic drink other than Champagne, the first of which I think is morally wrong, the second poncey and snobby. But certain kinds of good food are expensive, and I don't hate it simply because it concentrates on those things.

If I hated any place that sold good food I'd run into problems every time I choose to eat out. It's that they sell bubbles and posh expensive cheese in THAT MARKET. Had it been in Kensington no one would've batted an eyelid.

 

[Yelkcub]

Does it matter? It still adds up to a shedload of views.

Is had a significant impact on how many people are talking about it, IMO. There about 2.5k replies here but a lot of them are from the same people, so the polarised opinion your talking about is among a very small sample.

 

[editor]

Is had a significant impact on how many people are talking about it, IMO. There about 2.5k replies here but a lot of them are from the same people, so the polarised opinion your talking about is among a very small sample.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, but generally a huge amount of page impressions is a good indicator that the topic is a popular one. The articles on BBuzz have had tens of thousands of page impressions and attracted a wide variety of views in the comments, and the opening has been reported widely in the media.

The facebook event page was particularly contentious too.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If I hated any place that sold good food I'd run into problems every time I choose to eat out. It's that they sell bubbles and posh expensive cheese in THAT MARKET. Had it been in Kensington no one would've batted an eyelid.

I have a very different take on that. I find places that are relentlessly upmarket like Kensington far more objectionable than places with a mix of up and downmarket like Brixton. It is the likes of Kensington that exclude.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I have a very different take on that. I find places that are relentlessly upmarket like Kensington far more objectionable than places with a mix of up and downmarket like Brixton. It is the likes of Kensington that exclude.

But isn't the point that C&F wouldn't be seen to be particularly excluding, in the context of somewhere like Kensington. It would just be another posh place like all the others.