I remember once being in the smoking areas in one of those bars on hoxton square drinking a pint that was probably about £4.50 (it was probably bought for me alright or something) and there was a homeless guy the other side of the perspex wall asking people inside the bar for 50p and everyone (including me yes) was like "ah sorry nothing to spare" and the guy was ranting about how everyone was sat there with £4.50 drink but noone had spare change.... that was me flaunting right there, even tho i wasn't conscious of it until he said that, but after he said it i came to a realisation.
Champagne & Fromage opening in Brixton soon
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ska invita
back on the other side
im a fishco regular, ive had more than my fair share of those thanks
well there's relative poverty and absolute poverty, the principles are much the same
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Rushy
basically a scrotum
And so you don't go to pubs with windows any more?
. Smart guy probably realised you all had 50p change
Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
What is fishco?
Rushy
basically a scrotum
But poor people are not stupid. They know people are drinking beer, wine and spirits in there.
Blocking the view only makes it easier for those inside.
are you for real?
ska invita
back on the other side
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/fix-up-look-shark-fishco-coming-yo.315946/
not sure how doable it is from a phone, but it has been done by some
every Friday night, been going for a few months now
editor
hiraethified
I could be wrong, but given the economic and social demographics of the area, I'd suggest that very few would be likely to 'treat' themselves to a £30 afternoon tea at C&F, or feel much inclination to do so, given the limited appeal of the place and the availability of far better value 'treats' elsewhere.
At times, it seems to me that the estate directly opposite the Village has become invisible to people arguing about all the far-ranging benefits the place is supposed to have brought to Brixton residents.
ska invita
back on the other side
Its genius - logic over bad taste - very classy. bottoms up!
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm sure you're right. Some will, though, just as some not so well off people take their not so well off mums to the Ritz for afternoon tea as a birthday treat. The scale of the inequality is of a different order.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
interesting technical distinction, but I think you should put your dicitonary definitions away, its really not complicated, I find this place offensive and others do too. If you dont understand why after 70 pages there's no hope explaining. Oh, and its just as much about the customers as it is the seller, in fact more so.
I dont know, maybe ive got some kind of archaic attitude to this, people seem more shameless about consumption these days... the list of things I find ostentatious in London is a long one.
but this is the emotional impact of the place - runs in tandem to the economic impact
My questioning of your word "flaunting" does not mean that I do not understand why you and others find C+F offensive. I do understand that, and even if I disagree with some/a lot of what has been said, the thread has made me examine some of my assumptions.
However, when you said
I assumed that there has been some deliberate actions such as a Loadsamoney-like brandishing of champagne bottles.
If what you actually mean is that the selling/drinking of champagne in this manner is inherently "flaunting" then that's something else entirely (and revisiting why/whether champagne is inherently evil or a signifier would be a tedious re-run of the last 70 pages).
To be honest, your language reminded me a lot of the Daily Mail - "Here's a photo of the lovely Charlotte Church, flaunting her curves". No she's not - she just happens to be curvy.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Yes.
Which may be why I still don't understand your earlier point. You say that you came to the realisation that drinking a pint where someone who cannot afford one can see you through the window is, to all intents and purposes, flaunting. And... has that changed your behaviour? If so, how? If not, why not?
ska invita
back on the other side
Onket is right, i am getting repetitive, but just a last word on this point: very publicly quaffing champagne in what i would describe as a poor market in one of the poorest corners of london is ostentatious, simple as that. ostentatious, flaunting, much the same word to me. Either way, you get the drift.
ska invita
back on the other side
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Were you being a dick about it? Sounds like you were just drinking a pint.
editor
hiraethified
I really think that some people (and I don't mean you here) don't even come close to comprehending the levels of inequality and hardship that can be found mere metres from this champagne bar.
It sickens me to be honest, as does inane, trite and meaningless 'comparisons' with people owning smartphones or whatever. There's a world of difference between something that gives you social mobility (and perhaps work), and supping expensive champagne in a traditional market that sits in a ward with the highest levels of poverty in the borough.
I don't care if people want to call it 'flaunting' wealth or anything else, but I do know that it provides a stark, crystal clear focus on the horrendous levels of inequality in this area and the fast-growing divide between the haves and the have nots.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I agree with you about this, and a champagne bar is certainly very symbolic of this fast-growing divide. I don't deny that. Although the exclusion extends far beyond expensive bars, tbh. Even going to the cinema nowadays is a very expensive luxury for many.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Champagne is supposed to be 'flaunted' isn't it? It's not just a nice thing that happens to be expensive (which I think applies to the cheese, for example), it's a thing that people buy precisely because of that. They don't chuck it around after F1 races because it's tasty (or even because they can spray it).
And the point of a champagne bar is that it's a casual few glasses of the stuff on a night out. Which is why the 'but this other pub serves it' argument is so weak. I expect nearly every pub in London has a bottle or two behind the bar in case a regular has a baby/gets married/gets a new job/otherwise gets carried away - that's how it's always been used and it is different to a champagne bar IMO.
And the point of a champagne bar is that it's a casual few glasses of the stuff on a night out. Which is why the 'but this other pub serves it' argument is so weak. I expect nearly every pub in London has a bottle or two behind the bar in case a regular has a baby/gets married/gets a new job/otherwise gets carried away - that's how it's always been used and it is different to a champagne bar IMO.
Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
Looks complicated.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Phew, that was almost an hour without a post
PartisanDulwich
Well-Known Member
East Dulwich is going same way
I blame people selling up in Clapham and moving over here
East Dulwich once had large afro Caribbean and Irish community - the Irish went home and afro Caribbean community has left or died out
My boys infant school was 50% BME 50% white (and most of that was Irish) now nearly all white
Once I had teachers and social workers, no more the case
Housing associations also seem to have sold property and moved out of the area (like Barry road)
Foxtons have helped social cleanse ED
We don't mind Bohemian arty types but please no more bankers with stay at home wives, demanding Iceland closes so Marks & spencers can move in
We need to be forceably highlighting social inequality locally and demanding affordable housing
The Council needs to play a role in this as well
by at very least pointing out problems, trends etc, or zoning areas ie Arts,
I read a study from Canada that highlighted the fact that the more community activities an area has the more "progressive" they were likely to be
I blame people selling up in Clapham and moving over here
East Dulwich once had large afro Caribbean and Irish community - the Irish went home and afro Caribbean community has left or died out
My boys infant school was 50% BME 50% white (and most of that was Irish) now nearly all white
Once I had teachers and social workers, no more the case
Housing associations also seem to have sold property and moved out of the area (like Barry road)
Foxtons have helped social cleanse ED
We don't mind Bohemian arty types but please no more bankers with stay at home wives, demanding Iceland closes so Marks & spencers can move in
We need to be forceably highlighting social inequality locally and demanding affordable housing
The Council needs to play a role in this as well
by at very least pointing out problems, trends etc, or zoning areas ie Arts,
I read a study from Canada that highlighted the fact that the more community activities an area has the more "progressive" they were likely to be
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Good link.
Why I decided to start the other thread for Social Housing issues. There is also a new Housing Activist group recently been set up.
Coldharbour Ward ( which is centred around Brixton and encompasses the existing social housing estates) still has a majority of social housing tenants. Even though social housing is under threat.
As ska invita has pointed out time and again C&F in the middle of a ward with a demographic is a wind up. It winds me up.
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Southwark has certainly played its part by furiously selling off its converted Victorian flats at auction.
Are you at least going to accept that bars selling champagne in the coldharbour ward for roughly the same price have been going for more than ten years now? What sets this place apart?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Are you posting from 10 years ago?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Trite and meaningless? How much do you need to spend on a smartphone to gain "social mobility and perhaps work"?
A keen deal. Make sure you share these moneysaving tips with the most needy of the area, so they don't miss out.
