Question Can anybody identify this old camera?

[stowpirate]

Might have posted this question before in 2010? Anyway it has no identification marks apart from APEM on the leather strap. I assume it dates from around c1920. The shutter is located in front of the lens and has 25th 50th 100th B & T settings. The aperture settings are numbered 1,2,3 & 4 ? Inside the camera it has a red/black label stating APEM takes No225/25 Rajar Roll Film 2.25x3.25" It is fully working and cost me two quid at a car boot sale. Further info I have been given on AP forum is:

"APM - Amalgamated Photographic Manufactures Ltd formed in 1921 from an assortment of British photographic companies. Soho, Kershaw, Rajar and many others including Paget (Rajar Films who were eventually taken over by Ilford). APeM (the trade name) was not successful and closed in 1929. I think the camera you have is from the Soho/Kershaw works - certainly looks like one of theirs."

I have recently used the camera with mixed results so am now interested in it origins again

 

[ViolentPanda]

It looks like an APM Altrex with an Ilex shutter. IIRC the film is 120-size, with a slightly-different fitting where the turning key meets the film spool, than the Kodak standard.
As usual, they were made with several levels of fitment and lens quality.

 

[stowpirate]

It looks like an APM Altrex with an Ilex shutter. IIRC the film is 120-size, with a slightly-different fitting where the turning key meets the film spool, than the Kodak standard.
As usual, they were made with several levels of fitment and lens quality.

There is not that much information on these British made cameras. The camera also has what looks like a serial number 19131 punched into the lip that is visable when the back film loading door is open. If I could find a date of manufacture that would be interesting.

Used the camera yesterday but made the mistake of having shutter set to T and wasted most of the film. There is also no f stop numbers, just 1 to 4

 

[RoyReed]

It's sometime in the 1920s according to this site:

http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/entry_C717.html

 

[ViolentPanda]

There is not that much information on these British made cameras. The camera also has what looks like a serial number 19131 punched into the lip that is visable when the back film loading door is open. If I could find a date of manufacture that would be interesting.

I recognise the shutter because I've got a set of technical drawings of different shutters from the 1900s-1930s lurking around somewhere.

Used the camera yesterday but made the mistake of having shutter set to T and wasted most of the film. There is also no f stop numbers, just 1 to 4

From what I recall, they're mostly f6.3-f16.

 

[stowpirate]

Managed to get a few good photos. Scratches from loading problems with developer tank spool.

 

[RoyReed]

Managed to get a few good photos. Scratches from loading problems with developer tank spool.

Are you using plastic or metal spools?

 

[stowpirate]

Are you using plastic or metal spools?

Plastic, ones bakalite thingy from 1930's. I have now given them a good clean as both was a tad dirty with chemicals stains from years of use. I used warm/hot water with detergent and a tooth brush. Spent a good half hour gently trying to clean any muck/dirt/stains out of the grooves. Especially around the locking ball bearing part. Anyway next film will test that dirty spool theory out! Test film went on OK so could be just a one off?

 

[RoyReed]

Plastic, ones bakalite thingy from 1930's. I have now given them a good clean as both was a tad dirty with chemicals stains from years of use. I used warm/hot water with detergent and a tooth brush. Spent a good half hour gently trying to clean any muck/dirt/stains out of the grooves. Especially around the locking ball bearing part. Anyway next film will test that dirty spool theory out! Test film went on OK so could be just a one off?

If you ever find any metal spirals at a car boot sale grab them. There's a knack to using them, but once you've got it they're much easier and quicker than the plastic ones. Practice with an old film, first in daylight, then in the dark. 35mm film is easier than 120, so practice with that first.

 

[stowpirate]

If you ever find any metal spirals at a car boot sale grab them. There's a knack to using them, but once you've got it they're much easier and quicker than the plastic ones. Practice with an old film, first in daylight, then in the dark. 35mm film is easier than 120, so practice with that first.

Useful guides. Never really had a problem with the 35mm spirals/spools. 120 from time to time has been problematic. In this hot weather trying to get a roll film on a spool in a daylight changing bag is a trying task

 

[RoyReed]

It's much harder in a changing bag whichever method you're using. How big is the bag? The small ones make it really difficult.

 

[stowpirate]

It's much harder in a changing bag whichever method you're using. How big is the bag? The small ones make it really difficult.

I think it is a small one. Not a lot of room if you know what I mean! I normally cheat with 35mm film. I know the feel of the film coming off the take up spool in camera. I know dangerous assumption but very useful tip. So most of the time my film comes out of camera with the leader still outside the cartridge. I then cut film end so it is square, then rounding off corners and feed it into the spool/spiral before it goes into the daylight changing bag. Then after loading spool I rip the film out of the cartridge! No cutting inside the daylight changing bag

 

[Hocus Eye.]

On changing bags, there used to be two kinds: plastic with a rubber liner and cotton ones. The cotton ones when they were available were much better because your hands did not get so hot in the bag. They were also bigger which made them easier to use. Those ones became unavailable after few years.

Another thing to be aware of is not to try to load the film too soon after it has been exposed. The film is wound around the camera spool the opposite way around to the way it is in the cassette. If you try to load it into a spiral straight after taking it out of the camera it will have a "memory" of being wound the wrong way even though it is in the cassette and will fight being wound into the spiral. Just leave it in the cassette for an hour or so and it will go on the spiral more easily. Then you can stop so that there is a bit of film sticking out.

When cutting the film and rounding or removing the corners in daylight remember not to cut between the sprocket holes. That can result in a backward facing bit of film jamming the spiral. (I may not have explained that very well.) Some of you will know what I mean.

I agree with stowpirate about judging the end of the film. If you slow down when re-winding having counted the number of winds (half turns) - each of which represents approximately one shot, you can work out how near the end of the film is and listen to the end of the film coming off the camera spiral.

 

[stowpirate]

When cutting the film and rounding or removing the corners in daylight remember not to cut between the sprocket holes. That can result in a backward facing bit of film jamming the spiral. (I may not have explained that very well.) Some of you will know what I mean.

I have that problem more when cutting a Leica film leader without a template

I agree with stowpirate about judging the end of the film. If you slow down when re-winding having counted the number of winds (half turns) - each of which represents approximately one shot, you can work out how near the end of the film is and listen to the end of the film coming off the camera spiral.

On old world cameras with metal take-up spools sometimes some force is required to get the film ti dissengage. More modern cameras are more difficult to judge/feel the film coming off the take-up spool. Obviously those electric beasties just wind the film back with no chance to stop the film dissapearing into the canister. Anyway then a bottle opener is the way to go.

Should rename this thread photographic darkroom tips

 

[RoyReed]

Obviously those electric beasties just wind the film back with no chance to stop the film dissapearing into the canister.

Some 35mm film cameras had the ability to stop the film winding back fully into the cassette - Canon T90 was one (with a small mod) and I think the full Eos range as well.

 

[stowpirate]

Some 35mm film cameras had the ability to stop the film winding back fully into the cassette - Canon T90 was one (with a small mod) and I think the full Eos range as well.

"fish for it with a leader retrieval tool"

I wont one!!! You can stick some double sided sticky tape to an off cut of film and fish for it that way

 

[RoyReed]

To be honest I always wound the film all the way back in and took the ends off the cassette in the darkroom with a bottle opener. Too much risk of scratching the film by pulling if back through the opening in the cassette if you ask me. But then I was always very careful in my b&w film processing. Tri-X and D76 1+1 single use only, all chemicals brought up to 20°C ±¼° in a water bath, and even the wash water would start at 20° and gradually be brought down to normal cold tap temperature. Taking that approach really made a difference to the grain structure, keeping it very fine and regular (for 400ASA film).

 

[Wilson]

I used to do almost the same other than I would rip open the cassette by stuffing my thumb in the light trap, use id11 1:2 instead of d76 and then wash using the water and time saving agitation method. My view was that a lot of the quality of the negs/ grain/ contrast/ acutance etc was down to the dilution of the developer and the agitation method during development and of maintaining a constant 20c throughout the whole process including washing.

 

[RoyReed]

Originally D76 and ID11 were identical (I think this was true about 40 years ago when I was using it regularly), but Kodak and Ilford both modified the formula slightly with additives to prevent oxidation before use and to aid replenishment in large developing baths. I used to make 5l batches and store it in a collapsible bottle to help reduce oxidation.