Brixton Village/Granville Arcade indoor market, Brixton
- Thread starter Ms T
- Start date
All the conversations I'd had with spacemakers suggest they are neither naieve nor remotely complicit with LAP.
LAP wanted to sell Granville Arcade. Irrespective of whether it had a load of unused shop units in it, or whether it had chi-chi delis.
I suspect spacemakers bringing a lot of extra activity to the place helped in winning it listed status. (And if it hadn't won listed status, it would have been sold to developers, so end of market)
But it's beside the point: I suspect the rent hikes would have happened irrespective of who was renting the units. Like the editor pointed out, once it won listed status, LAP will simply want to up the rent.
I doubt the coffee shops and restaurants and 2ndhand clothes shops (*especially* the 2ndhand clothes shops) are making much more money than the butchers/fishmongers/fruit'n'veg stallholders. The latter have been there longer: they've got proven, tried'n'tested businesses. If anything, I'd say the rent hikes will probably hit the more chi-chi places harder: how many vintage frocks do you suppose a shop unit sells an hour? I doubt we're talking double figures.
editor
hiraethified
It's the busiest I' ve ever seen it on weekends, and there's a lot more people about in the week too.
The listing happened prior to LAP hiring spacemakers in.
editor
hiraethified
It was said by a market trader on the BBC yesterday ("we're becoming dinosaurs"), and from my chats with a few more traders today there seems to be truth to the story that the fruit and veg stalls on Electric Avenue are really suffering as a consequence of the changes in Brixton.
Although every time you see a new Brixton restaurant owner being interviewed, they're always quick to bang on about how they buy all their fresh ingredients from the markets, that's not being backed up by the stalls I spoke to.
They also said that the people now coming into Brixton are far less likely to buy anything off them, and that's putting their whole future in doubt.
After seeing the free for all that's taken place in Market Row and Granvile Arcade, I'm now having real doubts about the future of the market.
And if it really is under such threat, is there any hope of it surviving given the growth of supermarkets and the fast-changing demographics?
Although every time you see a new Brixton restaurant owner being interviewed, they're always quick to bang on about how they buy all their fresh ingredients from the markets, that's not being backed up by the stalls I spoke to.
They also said that the people now coming into Brixton are far less likely to buy anything off them, and that's putting their whole future in doubt.
After seeing the free for all that's taken place in Market Row and Granvile Arcade, I'm now having real doubts about the future of the market.
And if it really is under such threat, is there any hope of it surviving given the growth of supermarkets and the fast-changing demographics?
the simplest answer to this is: only if we shop there rather than just talk about shopping there. a lot of the time people lament the demise of this shop, that pub, this cafe but never went there or only went there once or twice.
i can see however how they feel the new people coming to brixton will be less likely to buy off them. i sort of see that too. and it's sad. the market is so much better and cheaper than bloody sainsbury's local. and has far less plastic packaging. i hate the way sainsbury's local put every fruit or veg into as much plastic as they possible can. makes me cross.
i can see however how they feel the new people coming to brixton will be less likely to buy off them. i sort of see that too. and it's sad. the market is so much better and cheaper than bloody sainsbury's local. and has far less plastic packaging. i hate the way sainsbury's local put every fruit or veg into as much plastic as they possible can. makes me cross.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
well, if incomers aren't buying off the stalls (even though they all claim to be ffs) then yes, the market will be dead soon enough and no coming back. this is something i can't understand. every fashionable new restaurant, every incomer, all claim that the market is the best thing in the world and they buy all their stuff there, but the market traders are seeing incomes drop and all the supermarkets are opening as many stalls as possible to cater for the incomers, who apparently only buy from the market. why do they all say they do when they don't? what's in it for them? who are they trying to convince and why?
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
I think/hope the street market will just about survive if council tenants are not forced out of Brixton. But the demographic changes in the last few years have been immense. The 'black flight' was happening before Spacemakers came on the scene. The trader on the Beeb takes a long view - his mum has been running that stall for at least half a century.
I've often seen people coming out of the sainsburys local next to brixton tube station with two fully loaded bags of shopping during daytime hours. I just can't comprehend how they think that this is better than buying fresh produce at a cheaper price in the market. The mind boggles.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
I think they need to evolve. Currently there are too many selling the exact same produce purchased from the exact same wholesalers. The offer is great in some respects but lacking in others - e.g. lettuce. I'll go into M&S sometimes to buy lettuce and end up buying the rest there for convenience. The produce is sometimes not the freshest too - I went to both my usual grocers to buy chillis the other day and although there were plenty they were fairly tired, so I left it. I could have got them elsewhere but just couldn't be arsed. Clearer pricing would be good too. Seems crazy not to given how cheap they are. And as TruXta said, there are lots of people working silly hours every day and when they come home Sainsburys / Tesco are the only options.
I enjoy shopping there but I can see why people don't get around to it. The stalls have to fit in with their customers - not vice versa.
I enjoy shopping there but I can see why people don't get around to it. The stalls have to fit in with their customers - not vice versa.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Citation needed
editor
hiraethified
They're there to be found if you can be arsed to look them up. I can't, I'm afraid but it did take me ten seconds to find this one:
editor
hiraethified
Why do they say it? Maybe because it makes them look like they are 'saving' Brixton's markets, just like Foxtons like to think they're 'improving' an area.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
Anyone found a good source of spinach in the market? I can never find good stuff and end up getting it at T***o. Seems to me that the market traders have pretty much given up on things with a short shelf life. Or maybe the supermarket buyers get all the good quality stuff and Covent Garden only has leftovers.
Crispy
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Well, that's the "Say they do" bit covered. How do you know they don't?
NOTE for public record: I shop in the market. But I also shop in Sainsbury's on top of the hill because a)It's closer to home and b)It's open after work hours.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
They're there to be found if you can be arsed to look them up. I can't, I'm afraid but it did take me ten seconds to find this one:
I don't understand. Are you suggesting that these ladies say they buy their produce at the market but in fact do not?
editor
hiraethified
I've no idea if they do or not. I was simply responding to Crispy's request of a citation.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Do they mean
(a) there are the same number of people coming to Brixton as before, and fewer of them are buying from the established market, or
(b) there are more people than before coming to Brixton, and the additional people are less likely to buy from the established market than the established visitors?
My guess is that the new people who come to try the new restaurants are less likely to buy from the the established market than the established visitors. But (a) would only pertain if the numbers of established visitors were dropping.
FWIW, I suspect the 'established' market is in long-term decline for all sorts of reasons, but I'm sceptical that the new businesses are putting people off coming here.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I think there's probably a lot of this. Not so much 'do people shop in the market or not' but are people shopping there less than they used to. I'd guess the number of people who buy all or the vast majority of their food from there is far, far lower than it used to be even among people who do shop there.
editor
hiraethified
I was just giving an example like you asked, but it is something I've read and heard many, many times in recent years.
Perhaps all these new restaurants are indeed sourcing all their fresh ingredients from the street markets, but if that is the case, it would seem that some of the traders aren't noticing it.
editor
hiraethified
That is what the trader said on the BBC yesterday and I imagine he'd know a bit more than most. It's also what I've heard too. He said people just walk by the stall now and never buy anything.
As for me, I've always bought from the market, but it's not hard to see how the shifting demographic (i.e. more of their traditional customers moving out/being priced out/evicted etc) may produce less trade for the street markets.
TruXta
tired
Could be that the majority of the restaurants only go with a small number of traders?
Crispy
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Or that the purchasing power of the restaurants is small compared to the (declining) mass of individual shoppers.
