British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Rob Ray]

Youre comparing me to some "racist thicko" (nice) because I would simpathise with a displaced refugee

If you don't want to be compared to racist thickos the easy solution is don't use their tactics, rather than complaining about it being highlighted. Tbh your first attempt at a response was better than this, at least it admitted how lazy you'd been.

Begum was not just some wifey making sandwiches in the kitchen for her hubby

I have no interest in your personal assessment of her character, let alone in your views on what makes a good wifey.

 

[krtek a houby]

That is one rubbish comparrison.

Youre comparing me to some "racist thicko" (nice) because I would simpathise with a displaced refugee who wasnt a murderous unrepentant terrorist over one who was? On the contrary this is a globally minded attitide. Begum was not just some wifey making sandwiches in the kitchen for her hubby she was tricked into marrying she played an active role in ISIL and the morality police. Imagine what happened to the people who they arrested etc.

I do have some major qualms about the government stripping people of nationality and banning them from entering the UK. But if there was ever a situation where you think the Daily Mail has got it right, this has to be it. Even her family spoke out against her unrepentant awfulness!

What's happened to you? First the dubious transgender comments and now this tosh

 

[klang]

Well at least the mail got it right, case closed.

 

[scalyboy]

Somewhat off-topic, perhaps, but I’ve been listening to the I’m Not A Monster BBC podcast - what’s going on with Shamima Begum’s accent? I can’t quite place it, seems to me she sounds slightly Australian or South African.

Whereas when a girl from her school or other locals who knew her are interviewed, they sound like regular London teenagers.

 

[scalyboy]

Whatever else may be said of her, she did come across to me as naive - said she was a feminist, but leaves the UK for a theocracy and ends up in a marriage where the husband is 100% dominant and the wife has to do what he tells her.
I guess this naivety is due to her age (15) when she left.

 

[RedRedRose]

I understand the dangerous legal precedent. I also understand that she is also a victim. My problem is, in the early stages of all of this, she was largely unrepentant about who she had been involved with and what had taken place. And that memory has stuck in my craw.

My question to all the people criticising this decision is this: if she was a fascist, and the state was using questionable, unconstitutional means to lock her up or deny her rights, would you still be just as outspoken? I am not sure you would be.

I think we should be critical and wary of the methods employed in this instance (because they can be used on others) but not of the outcome.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

IS are arguably fascist.

 

[Spymaster]

But Wat about are OWN BRITLISH homeless/?

Come on you know perfectly well this is a shit false equivalency. Don't be that person.

but it all feeds into each part, doesn't it? They're illegals, we can't trust them, they don't deserve the rights we agreed to decades ago. If we can do this to a British citizen, then we can do anything to these foreign crooks. It's all part of the process of dehumanisation and look after number one.

Both of these comments completely miss the point that Riklet was making.

 

[Spymaster]

My question to all the people criticising this decision is this: if she was a fascist, and the state was using questionable, unconstitutional means to lock her up or deny her rights, would you still be just as outspoken? I am not sure you would be.

Of course they wouldn't.

Jack Letts was also stripped of his UK citizenship under similar circumstances but as a white male, did not warrant the 200 page thread.

 

[girasol]

In the podcast Shamima said she expected she'd still be at the camp in 7 years time, that she had done a terrible thing and that was her punishment for it, being stuck in a camp for, potentially, the rest of her life. But this is it, she's been handed a sentence with no end in sight. Most criminals are given a number of years, hopefully they are rehabilitated and then released.

 

[Serge Forward]

Of course they wouldn't.

Jack Letts was also stripped of his UK citizenship under similar circumstances but as a white male, did not warrant the 200 page thread.

Says the person with the second highest number of posts on the thread (720 and rising)

 

[Spymaster]

Says the person with the second highest number of posts on the thread (720 and rising)

Mostly responses. When people tag or quote me I feel it a duty to reply and educate!

 

[Serge Forward]

 

[Rob Ray]

I feel it a duty to reply and educate!

Please feel free to lay down that burden.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Of course they wouldn't.

Jack Letts was also stripped of his UK citizenship under similar circumstances but as a white male, did not warrant the 200 page thread.

I've just been reading about him.

He's in a very similar situation, stuck in a camp, but unlike Shamima his situation is being pretty much ignored. His parents even ended up in prison for trying to help him.

 

[Spymaster]

I've just been reading about him.

He's in a very similar situation, stuck in a camp, but unlike Shamima his situation is being pretty much ignored. His parents even ended up in prison for trying to help him.

Someone will be along soon to make the spurious argument that Letts knew of his dual citizenship whilst Begum says she didn’t. It’s a moot point because neither knew that the UKG would pull their Brit status as a result of joining IS. Letts has said that he probably wouldn’t have gone if he’d known, so perhaps the UKG’s main mistake is not making people more widely aware of potential consequences.

 

[Riklet]

What's happened to you? First the dubious transgender comments and now this tosh

Cross thread beef? "dubious transgender comments". Thanks for that. I think thats really unfair and quite hurtful tbh. Im not going to engage with this kind of bullshit.

 

[Riklet]

but it all feeds into each part, doesn't it? They're illegals, we can't trust them, they don't deserve the rights we agreed to decades ago. If we can do this to a British citizen, then we can do anything to these foreign crooks. It's all part of the process of dehumanisation and look after number one.

I dont totally disagree with you tbh, this dangerous narrarive does exist and should not be ignored, but there are practical situations in the real world which challenge ideals.

What would you do in this situation then?

 

[Riklet]

Well at least the mail got it right, case closed.

Its not case closed is it or else we wouldnt be having this debate. There are two sides or more to every ethical and moral dilema.

 

[Tones]

I haven't seen the programme but did they ask Shamina if she' would of still gone if she had known she could lose her British citizenship.

 

[pesh]

Cross thread beef? "dubious transgender comments". Thanks for that. I think thats really unfair and quite hurtful tbh. Im not going to engage with this kind of bullshit.

 

[Spymaster]

Cross thread beef? "dubious transgender comments".

You've been doing a lot of these drive-by, cross-beef, hit-and-runs recently, krtek a houby .

You ok?

 

[Riklet]

View attachment 364270

Why dont you go fuck off you cunt.

Got something to say then say it straight. Not in a snidey jab when im talking to someone else.

 

[pesh]

Sounds like you got the message

 

[Pickman's model]

Why dont you go fuck off you cunt.

Got something to say then say it straight. Not in a snidey jab when im talking to someone else.

You'll get what you're given and you'll like it

 

[Petcha]

I haven't seen the programme but did they ask Shamina if she' would of still gone if she had known she could lose her British citizenship.

No, didn't see her being asked that. Would have been a good question. But given how clueless she seemed in general I doubt that would have crossed her mind.

 

[scalyboy]

In the podcast Shamima said she expected she'd still be at the camp in 7 years time, that she had done a terrible thing and that was her punishment for it, being stuck in a camp for, potentially, the rest of her life. But this is it, she's been handed a sentence with no end in sight. Most criminals are given a number of years, hopefully they are rehabilitated and then released.

A good reason for her wanting to return to the UK, then - even if she was convicted and given a prison sentence it would still be finite. I'm not even sure what a minor could be charged with - aiding and abetting a foreign power? Treason?

My guess is that if she had managed to return, instead of prison, she'd have been tagged and would've had to check in regularly with the authorities for the rest of her natural ... all her Google searches monitored and her phone registered... but better than languishing in the camp indefinitely.

My own view FWIW - based on what I've read and what I've heard of her interviews on the podcast - is of a naive, not particularly likeable person; at first unrepentant at having thrown in her lot with Da'esh, until she realised how negatively she was being perceived in the UK, and therefore needed to try to swing public opinion in her favour. But to quote William Burroughs, 'Wouldn't you' ?

And just because a person may be unlikeable and may give a distasteful impression is irrelevant (or should be) to the workings of the law. I'm certainly not a fan of hers, but she was 15 when she went to join Da'esh, so therefore a minor in UK law?


NB / IAmNotALawyer /

 

[Dystopiary]

I've just been reading about him.

He's in a very similar situation, stuck in a camp, but unlike Shamima his situation is being pretty much ignored. His parents even ended up in prison for trying to help him.

Think they got a suspended. But I've been wondering if his parents supporting him - not sending him money whilst in ISIL(!) but publicly standing by him - has made a difference with his case.

 

[belboid]

I've just been reading about him.

He's in a very similar situation, stuck in a camp, but unlike Shamima his situation is being pretty much ignored. His parents even ended up in prison for trying to help him.

There was a fair bit of coverage at the time. Not as much, most likely because he was an adult but Begum was a child who had been groomed.

 

[Cloo]

The thing is the government wants to Make An Example of Begum, so they'll never shift