British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'
- Thread starter hipipol
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Yes. At least one for noncing.
ETA - And three of the Rochdale groomers, I think; stripped of British citizenship so they could be deported to Pakistan after release from prison (though I don't think that's actually happened).
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
There may be a multiplicity of reasons for the decision, but generally restricting freedom is regarded as one form of punishment, isn't it?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Scrap it then, it's clearly victimising people.
Athos
Well-Known Member
maomao
普費斯
His citizenship was stripped on the grounds that he had lied on his application form rather than for the sexual abuse he was found guilty of.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I think you're technically right (albeit the lie was about the abuse). But, see my edit: I understand others have been stripped for the abuse itself, since then (though I don't know enough if the detail, yet).
maomao
普費斯
May said she'd stripped them of citizenship 5 years ago but they're still in a UK prison. Sounds like showboating without wanting to put it to the test.
I'd happily see them castrated but I'm absolutely against them having their citizenship revoked because as with Begum it has an impact not confined to the individual being punished.
Athos
Well-Known Member
They've had it stripped (and that decision upheld on appeal).
They wouldn't have been deported before serving their sentences in any event. But they're now out of prison, but yet to be deported; I don't know why that is, but I guess they're trying to pursue other appeals.
I get what you're saying, but the idea of leveling-up Pakistani child rapists' rights to those of solely British sex offenders is a hard sell. I suspect most people would happily see them all dropped in the sea, regardless of nationality.
And the government probably raises that, and will use these unsympathetic subjects to push the boundaries of how the provision is used.
maomao
普費斯
Most white people, or people with all white families, who aren't affected by the narrative of 'not really British', probably would.
Athos
Well-Known Member
In my experience, people of all ethnicities have limited sympathy for child rapists.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Put Ian Huntley and, back in the day, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley on the flight too and millions of all hues would have applauded
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
I wasn't citing O'Brien, but the guy replying to him:
"A child convinced to be an adult "wife". Their "little secret, don't tell your parents". Trafficked by a dark-money network over borders, locked in a house with other girls for weeks, handed to an adult man to be sexual reward for his loyalty. Trafficking. Pure and simple."
I don't know why it settles on the original post rather than the reply when clicking a twitter link, even though the URL is different.
maomao
普費斯
What part of me wanting them castrated did you think indicated sympathy?
Athos
Well-Known Member
I don't think you do; I'm sorry if you thought I was saying that. I think you misunderstood my point, so I'll try to explain it better.
Some people defend this power on the basis that its use is limited to (suspected) terrorists. But I'm suspicious that the government will try to use it in other cases (there's nothing in the legislation itself that precludes that). And that, somewhat cynically, it'll use sex offenders as the test cases for that, because people* are unlikely to campaign to keep them here, regardless of the bigger principle at stake.
* crucially, even those from communities likely to be disproportionately affected by the expansion of this power.
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TopCat
Putin fanboy
You highlighted his stupidity
A lot of liberals would not agree. They stuck up for those two ( Brady and especially Hindley).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Hand out tickets for a one-way trip to the Arctic death camps of Kolyma
Doodler
You're quite nice when you smile
The old Loompanics mail order book catalogue was full of that stuff. One of their survivalist/self-sufficiency books was titled 'Where there is no dentist'.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Gunrunning for fun and profit
A load of these books are on the internet archive, eg muckrakers manual
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
We're back on the whataboutery tack again, I presume these three arseholes hold British citizenship by birth and not naturalisation? If so then they shouldn't be stripped of their British citizenship either. No matter how vile particular individuals are then you can't use justify punishing them as an argument for potentially stripping rights from others.
Like Begum's fate I truly don't care about the fate of these three, Personally I would keep them locked up for the rest of their lives and if other prisoners decide to take a homemade shiv to them, not going to lose any sleep over it but the principle of stripping someone of their citizenship is just one I can't get behind.
It's different if citizenship was acquired by naturalisation (ie a personal decision to seek it) rather than birth. then Yes there is an argument for losing it (even if it does render you stateless because you may have surrendered your original one).
Doodler
You're quite nice when you smile
The author of "Gunrunning ....' was Ragnar Benson. According to Wikipedia: 'As of 1999, he lived "...on nine acres in southern Idaho with his pet skunks and his wife and 100-plus guns of varying caliber." '
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Oh. Well that's just hyperbolic guff.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I don't know how they came by British citizenship. But I understand your position re not strpping citizenship by birth in any circumstances. Though we ought to frank about the consequences of that e.g. an increased risk that more kids will be raped here.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's a pretty simple situation for me. You do not weaponise a person's ethnicity against them. Ever. That principle is of course only really tested in the case of bad people, but if it doesn't also stand for bad people then it's not a principle at all. It's not so different from posting rules on here. The Home Office would fail Urban's 'don't be a dick' rule.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Except it's not ethnicity. It's nationality.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
He won’t hear you.
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