British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Athos]

Have there been any other cases over the years (I mean non-IS related specifically) involving non-UK citizens living/detained here, but unable to be deported or sent anywhere else?

Quite a few instances of indefinite immigration detention which has gone on for years.

 

[Spymaster]

i wonder how this might affect anyone who becomes a member of the chinese communist party which is of course committing genocide in xinjiang

Indeed. I think my earlier phrase direct complicity would probably become pertinent but I’d have no problem whatsoever with HMG stripping the British citizenships of any dual nationals involved in the Uighur genocide. They should.

 

[LDC]

Quite a few instances of indefinite immigration detention which has gone on for years.

Due to being unable to deport them anywhere, but also unable to give them UK citizenship? And not people that have been sentenced for a crime?

 

[Detroit City]

she's a traitor and should be locked up

 

[kebabking]

I wonder about the usefulness of an Act of Attainder...

Instead of trying to ram each, often very different, case/square pegs through X number of round holes, it would be better to have an Act of Attainder placed before the commons, the arguments made, and if passed, the result is then specific to that individual.

Personally i have no problem with someone being stripped of their citizenship - I'm uneasy with that power lying in the hands of a witless cockwomble like Priti Patel - but if a government submitted a petition to a senior court, or to parliament, and it was measured against an act of parliament outlining the circumstances under which citizenship could be annulled, I'd be permanently happy.

 

[Raheem]

I wonder about the usefulness of an Act of Attainder...

Instead of trying to ram each, often very different, case/square pegs through X number of round holes, it would be better to have an Act of Attainder placed before the commons, the arguments made, and if passed, the result is then specific to that individual.

Personally i have no problem with someone being stripped of their citizenship - I'm uneasy with that power lying in the hands of a witless cockwomble like Priti Patel - but if a government submitted a petition to a senior court, or to parliament, and it was measured against an act of parliament outlining the circumstances under which citizenship could be annulled, I'd be permanently happy.

Think this would have the effect of denying politicians the ability to act tough, thereby undermining the whole point.

 

[Pickman's model]

let's attaint priti patel

 

[SpookyFrank]

she's a traitor and should be locked up

'Traitor' is not a real thing.

 

[Detroit City]

'Traitor' is not a real thing.

well you know what i mean

 

[8ball]

Never HAVE had ...

Never WOULD HAVE had ...

 

[8ball]

'Traitor' is not a real thing.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I wonder about the usefulness of an Act of Attainder...

Instead of trying to ram each, often very different, case/square pegs through X number of round holes, it would be better to have an Act of Attainder placed before the commons, the arguments made, and if passed, the result is then specific to that individual.

Personally i have no problem with someone being stripped of their citizenship - I'm uneasy with that power lying in the hands of a witless cockwomble like Priti Patel - but if a government submitted a petition to a senior court, or to parliament, and it was measured against an act of parliament outlining the circumstances under which citizenship could be annulled, I'd be permanently happy.

IIRC it's not a point of British law but a point of international law that you can't render a person stateless.

 

[Struwwelpeter]

she's a traitor and should be locked up

And what is a traitor? What if your country and your ethics are in conflict? You will be a traitor to one or the other. It is by an accident of birth that someone owes allegiance to a country, (unless they become naturalised, in which case it is a matter of choice). Ethics are largely chosen, although some people might have had little opportunity to explore different ethical positions or might have been coerced, groomed or forcibly persuaded (as Begum will no doubt claim).

 

[kebabking]

IIRC it's not a point of British law but a point of international law that you can't render a person stateless.

Yeah, not really fussed about that....

 

[Teaboy]

'Traitor' is not a real thing.

Pretty bloody real for everyone who has been executed because of it.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Pretty bloody real for everyone who has been executed because of it.

For her to be a traitor she must be a UK citizen. The stated position of the British state is that she is not.

 

[Raheem]

For her to be a traitor she must be a UK citizen. The stated position of the British state is that she is not.

Actually, a UK citizen at the time of the offence.

 

[kebabking]

For her to be a traitor she must be a UK citizen. The stated position of the British state is that she is not.

Oh Frank....

She was a traitor during the period she gave her alleigence to an enemy state and while she was also a British citizen. She stopped being an active traitor when she ceased to be a British citizen.

However, should she return to the UK, she could still be prosecuted for treason because, guess what, you don't cease to be a murderer when you stop murdering - she could therefore certainly be prosecuted for the treason she committed while she was a British citizen.

 

[bimble]

If you just step back from it a bit isnt it totally morally bankrupt to think you’re doing a cunning plan or even looking tough by saying yeah she was born here and lived here all her life until she ran away to join a death cult but now we (a country massively better resourced than yours) just can’t be arsed to deal with her so here you go bad luck Bangladesh you were too slow. It’s pretty shameful.
150 times apparently this has been done or at least attempted by our government in recent years?

 

[not-bono-ever]

I was under the assumption that the situation with IS wasn't covered by our ole skool treason setup?

 

[Athos]

Due to being unable to deport them anywhere, but also unable to give them UK citizenship? And not people that have been sentenced for a crime?

I can't give any examples of specific instances, right now, but I'm sure there must be cases of peole with no right to remain, and who can't be sent to the country of their nationality becuase e.g. they're at risk of persecution there, and so are detained for a long time whilst a solution is figured out e.g. being accepted by a third country. I'll take a look later.

 

[kebabking]

If you just step back from it a bit isnt it totally morally bankrupt to think you’re doing a cunning plan or even looking tough by saying yeah she was born here and lived here all her life until she ran away to join a death cult but now we (a country massively better resourced than yours) just can’t be arsed to deal with her so here you go bad luck Bangladesh you were too slow. It’s pretty shameful.
150 times apparently this has been done or at least attempted by our government in recent years?

I think the Bangladesh thing is a side issue - it's purely about satisfying this stuff about rendering someone stateless - no one actually cares whether she has somewhere else to go, and we've done this to the Canadians and others (only because we were quicker than them, they were all quite happy to dump these people on us if they'd got the paperwork sorted out...).

 

[bimble]

Has it happened that we were too slow and got people dumped on us?

 

[Spymaster]

If you just step back from it a bit isnt it totally morally bankrupt to think you’re doing a cunning plan or even looking tough by saying yeah she was born here and lived here all her life until she ran away to join a death cult but now we (a country massively better resourced than yours) just can’t be arsed to deal with her so here you go bad luck Bangladesh you were too slow. It’s pretty shameful.

It's not a question of 'can't be arsed' it's a question of "fuck you". The government has put far more effort into keeping her out then they would have expended by bringing her back and nicking her.

150 times apparently this has been done or at least attempted by our government in recent years?

And our government is more restrained than some others when it comes to stripping DN's citizenships!

 

[bimble]

It’s an international relations nightmare. I don’t think javid would’ve rushed so enthusiastically to do this if her loophole nationality was American or Chinese . Idk .

 

[Spymaster]

I don’t think javid would’ve rushed so enthusiastically do this if her loophole nationality was American or Chinese . Idk .

I think you're wrong. As Kebabking said, we did it to Jack Letts as well and his other nationality is Canadian.

 

[bimble]

Nobody’s scared of Canada though.

 

[8ball]

Nobody’s scared of Canada though.

Are we scared of Bangladesh?

 

[Pickman's model]

Nobody’s scared of Canada though.

There are good reasons for the Americans to fear Canada Reasons to Fear Canada

 

[bimble]

Are we scared of Bangladesh?

Nope what can they do stop exporting cheap clothes to us ?