Brexit party on 31 January in London is going ahead. And it will be shit.

[editor]

Conversely, the people voted for the tories. That result, like Brexit, is the will of the people.

Therefore, the tories are the genuine voice of the people, surely?

It wasn't 'the will of the people' though, was it? It was a narrowly won, country-dividing, non binding vote that had an unknown amount of vote-rigging through well funded misinformation campaigns, probable Russian dabbling and outright lies.

 

[editor]

the whole thing is on youtube you can see for yourself. Its a UKIP rally with shit speeches and one prize cunt music turn

That's essentially what it was. A feast of flag waving UKIPpers wetting themselves to 'Rule Britannia' while a handful of whothefuckarethey buffoons blathered away on stage with that racist cunt Farage leading the pack. It was a total embarrassment.

 

[andysays]

Billy Simplistic rang up and asked for his paint-by-numbers argument back. How do you feel about the racists in this country crawling out of the woodwork and feeling so empowered these days? Word is, it's all down to Brexit.

Anyone pushing the idea that racists feeling empowered is all down to Brexit is in no position to criticise someone else for Billy Simplistic type arguments.

 

[editor]

Anyone pushing the idea that racists feeling empowered is all down to Brexit is in no position to criticise someone else for Billy Simplistic type arguments.

It's not me 'pushing' the idea that racists are feeling empowered because of Brexit. It's those damn researches with their pesky facts and studies.

71% of people from ethnic minorities now report racial discrimination, compared with just over half (58%) before the EU vote.

Our study has revealed a rise of racism in the UK’s most diverse areas. The study suggests racists are feeling increasingly confident in deploying abuse or discrimination. The proportion of people from an ethnic minority who said they had been targeted by a stranger rose from 64% in January 2016 to 76% in February 2019.

Worrying, racial discrimination and abuse is rising both on social media and amongst younger people. The survey found that at the end of 2016, 37% of people saw racism on social media on a day-to-day basis, but that has now risen to 50%, and is even higher for younger minority ethnic people aged 18 to 34.

Online racism has more than doubled since before the referendum, and there were rises of about 50% in the number or people reporting hearing people ranting or making negative comments about immigration or making racist comments made to sound like jokes.

Racism rising since Brexit vote - Opinium

71% of people from ethnic minorities now report racial discrimination, compared with just over half (58%) before the EU vote. Our study has revealed a rise of racism in the UK’s most diverse areas. The study suggests racists are feeling increasingly confident in deploying abuse or...

www.opinium.co.uk

Racism rising since Brexit vote, nationwide study reveals

Survey shows 71% of people from ethnic minorities faced discrimination, up from 58%

www.theguardian.com

Brexit 'major influence' in racism and hate crime rise

Community officers are being appointed around Wales to help deal with "tensions" in some areas.

www.bbc.co.uk

I've been subjected to more racism since Brexit than rest of my career altogether, former children's laureate says

Malorie Blackman said she has heard more racist comments since Brexit than she did in the previous 30 because "people feel they can say whatever they want".

www.telegraph.co.uk

And, of course:

 

[krtek a houby]

It wasn't 'the will of the people' though, was it? It was a narrowly won, country-dividing, non binding vote that had an unknown amount of vote-rigging through well funded misinformation campaigns, probable Russian dabbling and outright lies.

Hasn't Russian interference conspiracy theory been pretty much debunker on u75? And the divisions and racism were always there, so that doesn't really have a bearing on it. At the end of the day, all the shit is down to the middle class and remoaners. Brexit is just what the country needed. Look at the happy, jubilant faces all around you.

 

[ska invita]

That's essentially what it was. A feast of flag waving UKIPpers wetting themselves to 'Rule Britannia' while a handful of whothefuckarethey buffoons blathered away on stage with that racist cunt Farage leading the pack. It was a total embarrassment.

it was hosted by Leave Means Leave - if theres a difference between that and Farage's UKIP its a technical one

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Anyone pushing the idea that racists feeling empowered is all down to Brexit is in no position to criticise someone else for Billy Simplistic type arguments.

Are you seriously suggesting that brexit hasn't empowered racists? 'All down' is a silly straw man argument. It doesn't have to be 'all down' at all, just a major factor in the rise of racist abuse over the last four years.

You and others who resist this idea need to have a big think. You need to own the idea that the brexit process has made life for a great many BAME people and immigrants of all colours, particularly those from Eastern Europe, harder. If you want to advocate brexit, you have to do so with this fact in mind - somehow, and I don't know how you do this (not my problem), you need to justify the pain inflicted as serving a greater good. Anything else is intellectually dishonest.

 

[8ball]

Are you seriously suggesting that brexit hasn't empowered racists?

It would be hilarious to suggest such a thing, but conversations with BAME friends of mine in the last few days have made it a good deal less funny.

 

[chilango]

I don't think its particularly controversial to claim that Brexit has allowed some racists to feel empowered, with the likely consequence being a rise in reported racism.

But rather than arguing that this is not the case I would argue instead that this direction of travel was started long before the Brexit result. The campaigns themselves both inflamed the situation - either result would likely have led to a rise in reported racism be it the empowered racists we are encountering now or the hypothetical alternative of enraged and disenfranchised racists venting their frustrations.

To put it bluntly. I don't believe that a Remain vote would have stopped rising racism.

The genie was long out of the bottle.

Anyone paying attention could see this coming. Indeed for as long as I've been on here (and for a decade before at least) there has been discussion of the conditions that have been created for the both the rise in racism and the rise of the national populist forces seeking to benefit from it.

This direction of travel is common to most of Europe and to the countries like the USA so to create a fetish out of the Brexit vote (in either direction) is missing the point somewhat.

 

[8ball]

Good point, chilango

Brexit has mainly been responsible for making some kinds of behaviour appear more socially acceptable to some people, but it didn't create the situation as such. I don't think LBJ was arguing that it was, but that the erosion of the cultural lid that was in place over certain excesses of racist behaviour has real world consequences which should be taken into account.

 

[scifisam]

The sovereignty of parliament, something the british working class fought for has been restored.
Pity the remainers fought so hard to stymie the result we ended up with more Tory rule eh? You lot fucked the best chance of democratic socialism we have had. The fucking gall of you to moan about it.

Middle class entitled scum is what comes to mind when I hear shit about thick racist gammons.

WTF? Are you sure you meant to respond to me? I wasn't saying anything that's even slightly related to what you've just accused me of.

 

[Pickman's model]

Billy Simplistic rang up and asked for his paint-by-numbers argument back. How do you feel about the racists in this country crawling out of the woodwork and feeling so empowered these days? Word is, it's all down to Brexit.

keep it simplistic it's not all down to brexit, it's like the previous 10 years never happened.

 

[Pickman's model]

It wasn't 'the will of the people' though, was it? It was a narrowly won, country-dividing, non binding vote that had an unknown amount of vote-rigging through well funded misinformation campaigns, probable Russian dabbling and outright lies.

er that's not vote rigging, which refers explicitly to your actual fraud at the ballot box like stuffing the boxes or voter suppression. you're talking about a mendacious campaign with serious questions over funding. it's different.

 

[Proper Tidy]

were they?

Even if they were (not sure about that, had working class support but also had lots of musty types) there is quite a big difference between a membership based political organisation with a formal policy of forcible expatriation of non-white people and people who voted the way I don't like in a yes/no referendum

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Good point, chilango

Brexit has mainly been responsible for making some kinds of behaviour appear more socially acceptable to some people, but it didn't create the situation as such. I don't think LBJ was arguing that it was, but that the erosion of the cultural lid that was in place over certain excesses of racist behaviour has real world consequences which should be taken into account.

I'd say two things to that really. One, as was pointed out to me recently by a black person who grew up here in the 60s, if we think racism is bad now, it ain't nothing compared to the 60s and 70s, and things are less bad in many - most - ways than back then, even with brexit. But racism and racists never went away, and racism and anti-immigrant feeling has been on the rise in certain quarters in recent years as immigrants have increasingly been scapegoated for social ills, particularly since the accession of Eastern European countries to the EU. So something that was already there under the surface has felt emboldened to come back to the surface, and that thing was already being encouraged in various ways before the vote, before the referendum campaigns had started, before the referendum date was announced.

None of that changes the fact that the brexit process is directly responsible for making racism worse in the UK. I really don't think it is possible to argue otherwise.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Yeah I distinctly remember pre 2016 immigration was barely talked about. Has nothing to do with increased competition for services and resources due to falling social spending and insecure employment or anything.

 

[The39thStep]

I don't think its particularly controversial to claim that Brexit has allowed some racists to feel empowered, with the likely consequence being a rise in reported racism.

But rather than arguing that this is not the case I would argue instead that this direction of travel was started long before the Brexit result. The campaigns themselves both inflamed the situation - either result would likely have led to a rise in reported racism be it the empowered racists we are encountering now or the hypothetical alternative of enraged and disenfranchised racists venting their frustrations.

To put it bluntly. I don't believe that a Remain vote would have stopped rising racism.

The genie was long out of the bottle.

Anyone paying attention could see this coming. Indeed for as long as I've been on here (and for a decade before at least) there has been discussion of the conditions that have been created for the both the rise in racism and the rise of the national populist forces seeking to benefit from it.

This direction of travel is common to most of Europe and to the countries like the USA so to create a fetish out of the Brexit vote (in either direction) is missing the point somewhat.

Well made point. The other issue is how do we make sense of the fact that surveys show the UK as being more and more tolerant of diversity (and one of the highest levels in Europe)whist at the same time there is an increase in hate crime?

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd say two things to that really. One, as was pointed out to me recently by a black person who grew up here in the 60s, if we think racism is bad now, it ain't nothing compared to the 60s and 70s, and things are less bad in many - most - ways than back then, even with brexit. But racism and racists never went away, and racism and anti-immigrant feeling has been on the rise in certain quarters in recent years as immigrants have increasingly been scapegoated for social ills, particularly since the accession of Eastern European countries to the EU. So something that was already there under the surface has felt emboldened to come back to the surface, and that thing was already being encouraged in various ways before the vote, before the referendum campaigns had started, before the referendum date was announced.

None of that changes the fact that the brexit process is directly responsible for making racism worse in the UK. I really don't think it is possible to argue otherwise.

er the brexit process did not have to make racism worse and it's facile to say it did. you ignore the hostile environment promoted by tory governments for many years, but what's made it worse since the referendum has been the red lines theresa may determined without any input from parliament let alone her own party. the way that the tory government has changed the focus of the hostile environment to eu27 nationals. the decision to move away from the eu in such a way was a political calculation which had nothing to do with any facet of the article 50 process and it's er mendacious to say it did.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah I distinctly remember pre 2016 immigration was barely talked about. Has nothing to do with increased competition for services and resources due to falling social spending and insecure employment or anything.

Who the fuck is that a response to? Maybe try actually reading people's posts before coming up with moronic sneers like that, eh?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Remember when people used to look for the material cause of social developments, remember when that happened [stewart lee voice]

 

[Proper Tidy]

Who the fuck is that a response to? Maybe try actually reading people's posts before coming up with moronic sneers like that, eh?

Was in response to your post and your claim brexit directly responsible for rise in racism, despite stuff like the rise in racism predating referendum, counties like italy, greece, basically europe as a whole experiencing same with key difference that they haven't voted to leave EU, stuff like that.

Chilango is right to point to it exascerbating something which already existed but directly responsible, do me a favour. Directly responsible was the crash and the political and economic response of govt and capital to that

 

[scifisam]

None of that changes the fact that the brexit process is directly responsible for making racism worse in the UK. I really don't think it is possible to argue otherwise.

It is if you pretend that what you're really saying is that the rise in racism is solely down to Brexit, like a few people in this thread.

I don't get it, TBH. You can be in favour of Brexit and still acknowledge that it has problems, and this is one of them, so we need to to do our best to combat that, which starts with admitting it's an issue at all. Some other Brexit supporters in this thread do just that and I respect them a hell of a lot more than the others.

 

[editor]

keep it simplistic it's not all down to brexit, it's like the previous 10 years never happened.

Perhaps you overlooked - or are choosing to ignore - all the recent research showing an almighty spike in racism linked to Brexit. There's plenty of links for you to read, right above

 

[Pickman's model]

Was in response to your post and your claim brexit directly responsible for rise in racism, despite stuff like the rise in racism predating referendum, counties like italy, greece, basically europe as a whole experiencing same with key difference that they haven't voted to leave EU, stuff like that.

Chilango is right to point to it exascerbating something which already existed but directly responsible, do me a favour. Directly responsible was the crash and the political and economic response of govt and capital to that

it's wicked to mock the afflicted, and lbj's certainly be suffering from a bad dose of liberalism for many, many years

 

[scifisam]

Was in response to your post and your claim brexit directly responsible for rise in racism, despite stuff like the rise in racism predating referendum, counties like italy, greece, basically europe as a whole experiencing same with key difference that they haven't voted to leave EU, stuff like that.

Chilango is right to point to it exascerbating something which already existed but directly responsible, do me a favour. Directly responsible was the crash and the political and economic response of govt and capital to that

Racism was rising before Brexit. It's risen more since Brexit, partly due to Brexit. Those are not incompatible positions. It's exactly the same as saying that Brexit has exacerbated racism, and I don't think you really believe that LBJ was claiming anything else.

 

[editor]

It is if you pretend that what you're really saying is that the rise in racism is solely down to Brexit, like a few people in this thread.

I don't get it, TBH. You can be in favour of Brexit and still acknowledge that it has problems, and this is one of them, so we need to to do our best to combat that, which starts with admitting it's an issue at all. Some other Brexit supporters in this thread do just that and I respect them a hell of a lot more than the others.

I don't think it's solely down to Brexit at all, but do I think that Brexit has emboldened some people to express racist views more openly? 100%.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't think it's solely down to Brexit at all, but do I think that Brexit has emboldened some people to express racist views more openly? 100%.

And it's only possible to deny that fact from a position of total ignorance, tbh. People talk about 'remain bubbles' on here a fair bit, but if such things exist then so do 'leave bubbles', in which people live isolated from the nastiest aspects of brexit such as the rise in open racism and xenophobia because they're not confronted by it daily. Ironically, it is largely in the places in which there was a majority 'remain' vote that this rise is most painfully obvious.

 

[bimble]

What are british people even like - A full quarter of the brits surveyed in this (small poll yes) said they were to greater or lesser extent "bothered" when they hear people speaking any other language, rising to 41% of the people who had voted leave .

When in the UK, are you bothered when you hear those from a non-English speaking country talking to each other in their own language, or not? | Daily Question

When in the UK, are you bothered when you hear those from a non-English speaking country talking to each other in their own language, or not?

yougov.co.uk

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps you overlooked - or are choosing to ignore - all the recent research showing an almighty spike in racism linked to Brexit. There's plenty of links for you to read, right above

you said it's all down to brexit, all the people coming out of the woodwork, ignoring the history of the previous decade or more of vastly increased votes for the bnp, for ukip. ignoring the hostile environment. ignoring the focus on immigration under cameron. yes, there's been a spike. from 58% of bame people reporting racism to 71%. but i wonder that the % was over the decade before that.

for someone who's intelligent you do show a remarkable resistance to seeing the post-brexit rise in reports of racist activity as coming out of nowhere without seeing the pre-referendum trend.

 

[editor]

It's happening on the terraces too

In our divided Brexit Britain, football racism is on the rise yet again

Why is this happening?

First of all, football is not racist, society is racist, and society comes to football. Due to Brexit, as well as the changing social and political landscape in the United States and Europe, racism and xenophobia now masquerade as nationalism. For some, protecting one’s national identity means to protect its culture from perceived outsiders. Brexit, it could be argued, has capitalised on Britons’ fear of immigration and the erosion of the British identity. This nationalistic discourse, sadly, justifies racist and xenophobic behaviour and leads to the denial of racism.

In the current climate then, overt forms of prejudice are rising both online and offline and the tribal nature of sport fuels this fire. As a devoted follower of football, I understand that it can bring people together, break down barriers, and enrich lives. I’ve seen this. However, it also stirs up hate, divides people, and can encourage violence. Sadly, I’ve seen this too.

Opinion: In our divided Brexit Britain, football racism is on the rise yet again

There has been a string of racist incidents over the last few months. There is more the beautiful game can do to challenge hate speech

www.independent.co.uk