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Brexit party on 31 January in London is going ahead. And it will be shit.

littlebabyjesus said:
No it's not like that at all. The point is that racism and xenophobia have got worse because of brexit. You must know that that is the point. Why post this drivel?
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Thers no doubt in my mind that the way in which the Tory/UKIP campaign was conducted that it contributed to an increase in hate crime, however pre referendum it was on the increase due to terrorist attacks. Improved reporting systems have also contributed to that and social media. To put everything down to Brexit might be your pet project but its not helpful.
 
The39thStep said:
Thers no doubt in my mind that the way in which the Tory/UKIP campaign was conducted that it contributed to an increase in hate crime, however pre referendum it was on the increase due to terrorist attacks. Improved reporting systems have also contributed to that and social media. To put everything down to Brexit might be your pet project but its not helpful.
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Nobody is 'putting everything down to brexit'. You do understand the difference between saying 'x is worse because of y' and 'x only exists because of y'?
 
The39thStep said:
Despite the fact that the pound has fallen before Brexit and we had racism and xenophobia before Brexit (sometimes its a bit like talking about football for people who can only remember the Premier League) , the pictures are very relevant to Brexit Day as it reminds people that in the past Labour was anti what was to become the EU , as was the TUC and the left and many of the Tories and their backers in favour , as were the Mosleyites.
Hers an old poster found at the now closed Aldwych Tube station with some promises from the pro Common Market campaign
5a520d2bec1ade7f2862cdf4
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The pound decreased hugely after the referendum and has stayed low, and racism and xenophobia have increased; you might have noticed that I said Brexit helped increase them, not that it was the sole cause.

brogdale said:
It does usefully illustrate that the parties of capital will promote whatever they currently believe will accelerate neoliberalism.
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Of course they will, but if staying in the EU is accelerating neoliberalism, is leaving the EU supposed to be put a brake on it? That would make Farage and Johnson anti-capitalists. Neither option is particularly socialist. I know being against neoliberalism was the reason most leavers on here voted leave, but decreasing neoliberalism was never going to happen under a Tory govt.
 
1%er said:
I hope you all have a wonderful time tonight, Remainers need to get over themselves and give thanks that they are no longer in a political union where they had no real say on how they are governed. The EU project was doomed after they ignored the results of referendums in France, Holland and Ireland, it just took many years for this to happen.

I'd expect Denmark to be the next to leave, but if there is another economic problem in the next couple of years it could be Italy that leaves next, southern Europe has suffered greatly economically from EU membership, unemployment will be the spark that lights they fire there, millions of young people see no future leaving with massive unemployment in the region and hopefully they will stand up and start fighting back. While eastern European countries have received lots of inward investment over recent years from the EU, the people there are now showing signs of becoming pissed off being dictated too by the EU and now the investment will slow or stop I can see a number of countries in the area looking to leave the EU.

Europe as a free trade area was a great idea, the same types of free trade agreements were happening around the globe, so the EU needed to become a free trade area but nowhere else was political union added to these agreements and for good reason.

Unlike many whose posts I have read on this thread, I believe the UK will do well sailing its own ship. I also think the EU without the UK will struggle on for a few more years but in the end the Euro will bring it to its knees and the whole thing will come crashing down.

I hate the fact that the Brazilian people voted for Jair Bolsonaro, but they did and I have to except that fact, I could cry and moan about how this will mean the end of the world and that everyone who voted for him is racist, sexist or homophobic, or I can just work and carry on in an effort to make things better. I suspect that having Jair Bolsonaro elected in Brazil will have about the same effect on me as Brexit will have on most of you. Have some perspective.
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Why restrict the comparisons to post-WW2 trade blocs? Economic interdependence has commonly preceded political federations we take for granted: India; the USA; Canada; Australian; and Germany herself. Ironically, I'd have far fewer issues with the E.U. if it was simply a project to federalise Europe: it's the supranationalist rhetoric that challenges the very concept of a nation state that I take issue with.

I'd love to see an EFTA-style arrangement across Europe, but accept that just isn't where Europe is, especially when the E.U.'s predecessor organizations were birthed in the aftermath of WW2. After all, the Coal and Steel communities were, first and foremost, a mechanism to make war between Germany and France "materially impossible", which the Benelux nations joined out of necessity, having just endured a brutal demonstration of how little their sovereignty was worth if their larger neighbours found it inconvenient. Blocs don't exist in the abstract, and Europe's position post-WW2 was in every sense a world away from, say, South America's Mercosur organization.

If Brexit had been conducted competently, there was some chance that smaller E.U. members could've considered seceding and rejoining an enlarged and emboldened EFTA. The isolationist trainwreck that's emerged has, by contrast, driven up support for Brussels, who, given the tone as Britain left, are just counting down to an accession request. That's why any Brexit won't do: get it wrong, and it'll destroy itself.
 
sleaterkinney said:
Good job all that is coming to an end tonight.
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scifisam said:
I know being against neoliberalism was the reason most leavers on here voted leave, but decreasing neoliberalism was never going to happen under a Tory govt.
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Personally, I've never subscribed to the notion that the UK leaving the supra state would be any brake on neoliberalism, oligarchic accumulation or wealth defence; quite the opposite tbh.
 
scifisam said:
The pound decreased hugely after the referendum and has stayed low, and racism and xenophobia have increased; you might have noticed that I said Brexit helped increase them, not that it was the sole cause.



Of course they will, but if staying in the EU is accelerating neoliberalism, is leaving the EU supposed to be put a brake on it? That would make Farage and Johnson anti-capitalists. Neither option is particularly socialist. I know being against neoliberalism was the reason most leavers on here voted leave, but decreasing neoliberalism was never going to happen under a Tory govt.
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The pound had been previously been at an artificial high due to the Greek crisis affecting the euro
 
scifisam said:
Oh come on. Are you seriously claiming that leaving a major trading bloc has got nothing to do with it?
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No of course not , what I am saying is that the fall looked worse due to the pound being artificially high. I’ve lived abroad since then and follow the pound euro trend as a necessity
 
The39thStep said:
No of course not , what I am saying is that the fall looked worse due to the pound being artificially high. I’ve lived abroad since then and follow the pound euro trend as a necessity
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Why bother pointing that out at all if you're not claiming that Brexit didn't affect the continued low value of the pound?
 
scifisam said:
f course they will, but if staying in the EU is accelerating neoliberalism, is leaving the EU supposed to be put a brake on it? That would make Farage and Johnson anti-capitalists.
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That chain of logic does not follow at all, different groups can argue for the same thing for different reasons.
 
redsquirrel said:
That chain of logic does not follow at all, different groups can argue for the same thing for different reasons.
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Yeah, they can, but you were claiming that photos of Thatcher supporting the EU in the 1970s were actually meaningful because they demonstrated that neoliberals will jump on any cause. Now it's that both leaving and staying in the EU are neoliberal (which I agree with), and different groups can argue for the same thing for different reasons, so I'm not sure you can square that with stating that those photos demonstrated anything.
 
Proper Tidy said:
Brexit will fuck the tories again btw. There is no doubt about this.
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Well, Brexit has fucked Labour and it may well fuck the Tories, depends how well we do as a country after the negotiation in December I guess.

Now we’re at the point of no return it’s in everyone’s interest that Brexit is a success.
 
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