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Brexit party on 31 January in London is going ahead. And it will be shit.

I did go down to see the SODEM lot btw, but there weren't many people there around lunchtime. Didn't even finish a roll.

Apparently there are some daytime marches tomorrow.

TFL traffic news said:
Westminster – From 14:00 on Friday 31 January, a group will form at Richmond Terrace for a demonstration. From 15:00, they will march to St John Smith Square via Parliament Square, Abingdon Street and Millbank until 17:00.

From 14:00 on Friday 31 January, a group will form up at Park Lane for a demonstration. Then at 14:30, they will march to Whitehall via Hyde Park Corner, Piccadilly, Piccadilly Circus, Regent Street, Pall Mall and Cockspur Street until 20:00.

Parliament Square – From 20:30 until 23:59 on Friday 31 January, a group will form up at Parliament Square for a demonstration.

Also there will definitely be people at Parliament Square before the big Nige bong bash in the evening.
 
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This brexit wasn't voted for in any referendum. This brexit with an end to free movement, an end to customs union, an end to alignment, the imposition of new borders, the imposition of new immigration restrictions, the imposition of new registers for foreigners. There was none of that in any referendum. The referendum said 'leave' therefore any kind of leave is more democratic than not leaving - that's a deeply anti-democratic argument. And that even assuming that you accept that the referendum itself was the pinnacle of democracy, which I don't.
It's interesting to see you and other remain supporters continuing to re-use all the same old arguments yet again, but essentially it appears to boil down to a rejection of democracy when it produces a result you don't like and, as an extension of that, a rejection of the right of those who disagree with you on this issue to have their voices listened to.
 
Oh come on, have we not done this enough in the past three and a half years?
Apparently not, judging from the recent comments of various remain supporters.

Maybe they're still hoping for the great unwashed masses wake up to how they've got it all wrong and the cancellation of Brexit at the eleventh hour...
 
It's interesting to see you and other remain supporters continuing to re-use all the same old arguments yet again, but essentially it appears to boil down to a rejection of democracy when it produces a result you don't like and, as an extension of that, a rejection of the right of those who disagree with you on this issue to have their voices listened to.
You started with 'the same old arguments'. Only surprised you didn't wheel out the 17.4 million trump card.

And you don't address any of the points I make in my post. You're also way off wrt what I've been saying over the years. I've been pretty consistent in saying that some kind of Norway+ brexit-lite would be about the fairest reflection of the referendum result, and that I would have accepted the Common Market 2 solution put forward last year as a sensible compromise (not that I have any say whatsoever in the matter - you seem to forget that when you accuse me and others of 'rejecting democracy'). As would a fair few brexit voters, btw, given that by no means everyone who voted for brexit was voting to leave the common market - for many older voters, that's the bit they wanted to keep, as you would know if you'd bothered to dig a bit deeper into this mess.
 
I went for a drink in Wetherspoons a while back, with quite a few other people. We’d been there for a long time when somebody told us that we would take a vote on going elsewhere. A slim majority voted to leave the pub, but lots of people didn’t vote (they were in the loo, outside for a ciggy, too sozzled etc) or they weren’t allowed to vote because they were too young, or even worse, foreign. The trouble is that some of those who voted to leave wanted to go to the Rose and Crown, others to the Blacksmiths arms, some for a pub crawl and some just wanted to go to the Co-op for some carry-outs. Years later some of those who voted have died, a whole lot more have grown up and can now legally buy alcohol, but their views aren’t counted. It’s raining outside. But we’ve been told by the landlord that we’ve got to leave because that’s democracy. Anyone else ever encountered such a bizarre situation?


In three and a half years of shit Brexit analogies, that has to be the worst I have heard, good going.
 
Pointless rehashing the same arguments over and over again. Let’s look forward to the future and massed civil disobedience and blood on the streets as the smug Tory cunts get what they really deserve
 
Pointless rehashing the same arguments over and over again. Let’s look forward to the future and massed civil disobedience and blood on the streets as the smug Tory cunts get what they really deserve

There will be no civil disobedience and the tories are in charge for the foreseeable.

Show me an active lexit and I’ll sign up but it looks very much like the forces happy being dickheads and backing corporations and hate are in charge.
 
One of the main benefits of Brexit is that we can bring back Spangles without any interference from the EU.
Sweet-Way-to-Go-Gay-1952-Spangles-807x1024.jpg
Other than that it's proceeding just as it was always going to. Tory Brexit for Tory people. Fuck foreigners, poor people and bye bye NHS as we know it. 10 years is plenty of time for them to achieve every disgusting little entry on their wishlist of deregulation and privatisation.


There's a whole new section of society in Britain, urban, multicultural, creative, independent. It's something that has developed within communities that have suffered worse treatment over a longer time frame than the northern towns that turned Tory. It's the real threat to those in power, driving change in ways they can't understand or control. People empowered through identity politics now reaching the point where they're able to push against structural inequalities yet the left leavers were content to throw us under the bus and since the referendum have essentially ignored our existence, preferring too focus on the 'liberal elite', one of whom I'm yet to meet.

As an example of who/what I mean, there is a thread on Urban about Peckham Town FC. Bryan who runs the club started out running an inter estate football league many years ago. As well as having an immediate positive effect on the kids he used to help, he'd be out picking them up every weekend, mediating disputes, dealing with parents, he works at South Bank university now and even got a scholarship for players there. He's been properly beaten by police twice and maliciously prosecuted for assault on an officer yet now sits in meetings advising them. He's broken out of the role assigned to him and done it totally on his own terms and the people who see him achieve this will do the same themselves.

We're not remoaners, just people who saw what we have built being attacked and left leavers were complicit in that attack, choosing to ignore the impact on millions of people on the off chance that the EU might crumble or, despite no election being scheduled, we might have a Labour government.

That someone would trumpet any aspect of the withdrawal agreement as proof of anything is ridiculous. We're about to go into negotiations with a much more powerful organisation and to save face the government will end up using whatever leverage they think they have, including people's lives. They signaled their intentions when they tried to remove protections for child refugees but hey don't worry it'll all be Ok.We'll get a shit deal, abandon anyone who gets in the way and end up stuck between the US and China unable to defend ourselves. It's already happening with Huwei.

What's about to happen to people less able to defend themselves in this country has nothing to do with people who voted remain and continue to view it as a dangerous power grab and move to the right. I don't think those who voted leave or abstained can say the same.

I'm extra fucked off today because I met a man yesterday who is being killed by universal credit, spending his rent money on drink because he's supposed to be learning to manage his money rather than direct payment to his landlord. If remain had won it seems reasonable to believe that our next government post Cameron would have been labour, having not been held back by the remain/leave issue and he would be hopefully getting his benefits in a different format and possibly some help with addiction.

A bit rambly, probably normal for me on politics but I can't believe there are lexity people still going on as if they didn't totally fuck up their reading of the referendum and the consequences of a leave victory. The lack of self awareness is fox like.
 
It's interesting to see you and other remain supporters continuing to re-use all the same old arguments yet again, but essentially it appears to boil down to a rejection of democracy when it produces a result you don't like and, as an extension of that, a rejection of the right of those who disagree with you on this issue to have their voices listened to.
AS someone else has pointed out, that whole tawdry referendum was hardly the pinnacle of democracy. Criticising a shoddily-run simplistic vote on a complex topic, whose campaigning plumbed new depths of dubious half-lying (and some outright lying) is not quite the same as "rejecting democracy", any more than criticising a particularly third-rate B-side by some obscure indie band is "rejecting music".
 
It's interesting to see you and other remain supporters continuing to re-use all the same old arguments yet again, but essentially it appears to boil down to a rejection of democracy when it produces a result you don't like and, as an extension of that, a rejection of the right of those who disagree with you on this issue to have their voices listened to.
It's like the let's get brexit done general election had never happened, the master liberal always makes one fatal error and lbj's is thinking he knows what he's talking about
 
AS someone else has pointed out, that whole tawdry referendum was hardly the pinnacle of democracy. Criticising a shoddily-run simplistic vote on a complex topic, whose campaigning plumbed new depths of dubious half-lying (and some outright lying) is not quite the same as "rejecting democracy", any more than criticising a particularly third-rate B-side by some obscure indie band is "rejecting music".
But if the result had been remain no doubt you’d have been up in arms about the tawdry simplistic vote on a complex subject ?
 
But if the result had been remain no doubt you’d have been up in arms about the tawdry simplistic vote on a complex subject ?
I could be wrong but I don't recall a big 'Remain' bus driving around the country with an almighty lie about the supposed incoming immense benefits to the NHS emblazoned all over it?
 
But if the result had been remain no doubt you’d have been up in arms about the tawdry simplistic vote on a complex subject ?

Don't know about him, but I would have thought it was a tawdry simplistic vote, yeah. It was a fucking shambles, with lots of outright lies on the leave side, plus a fair amount of xenophobia, and lots of really patronising talking down to the stupid proles on the remain side. Like Frank, I partly voted remain because I didn't want to leave under a Tory govt, but some of the stuff I heard about anyone who had any issues with the EU was so insulting it almost made me want to vote leave just to fuck those superior arseholes off.

(I think I would have voted remain even under a Labour govt, but I'm not certain. I definitely would have considered arguments in favour, whereas leaving under the Tories was always a no-go for me).

And it was far too rushed; it was pushed through as an advisory referendum - and yes it was, you know that - despite in reality being nothing like that. So it left "remoaners" with a technicality to "moan" about and meant that some people didn't really take the referendum very seriously. It was treated almost like a vote for Strictly Come Dancing in some spheres, on both sides of the debate.

The main difference is, if remain had won, it would still have been an advisory referendum, and in ten years or less we could have had the vote to leave again, so voting remain was never permanent, whereas voting leave is. Kinda like Scotland voting to leave the UK - hopefully that referendum will be re-run and leave will win; at least there is the option to re-run it.
 
But if the result had been remain no doubt you’d have been up in arms about the tawdry simplistic vote on a complex subject ?
Can't speak for anybody else, but if the result had been 52/48 the other way and people had been advocating a radical extension of European integration using that result as justification, I would have pointed out that a close result indicating that nearly half of the population didn't want to be in the EU at all was not a mandate for such a thing.
 
I was over near Bishop Auckland two weeks ago , this was one of the places that went Tory. If I’d have known at the time I would have told the locals that they weren’t ‘urban, multicultural, creative, independent’ enough. That sort of advice would have turned the place around transforming it and ensuring a future Labour regain.
 
Ellen Meiskins Wood said:
Revolutionary socialism has traditionally placed the working class and its struggles at the heart of social transformation and the building of socialism, not simply as an act of faith but as a conclusion based upon a comprehensive analysis of social relations and power. In the first place, this conclusion is based on the historical/materialist principle which places the relations of production at the centre of social life and regards their exploitative character as the root of social and political oppression. The proposition that the working class is potentially the revolutionary class is not some metaphysical abstraction but an extension of these materialist principles, ...... the working class is the one social force that has a strategic social power sufficient to permit its development into a revolutionary force. Underlying this analysis is an emancipatory vision which looks forward to the disalienation of power at every level of human endeavour, from the creative power of labour to the political power of the state.
^That is reason why people can't "move on" because the conflict is not between remain and leave (at least not on these boards) it is between competing political ideologies - one a socialism based on the power of labour, the other(s) a liberalism/social democracy/'true' socailism that at best is focused on party political power, at worst attainment of office.
 
Politicians are supposed to unite and lead a country. This Brexit omnishambles has turned communities against each other, given a free pass for racist smegbubbles to rise to the surface, made non-British born people feel uncomfortable in the country they've contributed to, and all this division and hate will last a generation at least. Fuck Brexit, Fuck Farage, Fuck racists and Fuck that festering pile of toffjuice Cameron for trying to save his worthless career by launching us on this self destructive trajectory.
 
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