Boris's ban on alcohol on London Transport (with poll)

[rutabowa]

no damage. yet there is damage beign done.

how Zen.

 

[ajdown]

it's nto a ridiculious extrapoliation at all... clearly you know little about posioning...

posion of which alcohol is, builds up in the body to the pioint where the body can no longer deal with it at that point the sudden noticable decline happens however this will occur a long time before the sudden decline but have less noticeable effects....

Don't forget tolerance too. As I don't drink, one or two pints would probably have me unconscious on the floor, whereas anyone who regularly drinks (in some amount) would be still standing after 4 or 14 pints depending on how heavy they drink.

Alcohol *is* a poison, after all.

 

[editor]

it's still not what you said earlier though is it?

Nope. Not even close, but Garf seems to be unable to admit that he was quite wrong with his earlier claim, despite me posting up research from Professor Bartlett, who is widely acknowledged as one of the world's leading brain scientists.

He even questioned the man's credentials, but as soon as I posted up details of Bartlett's impeccable research background, he went quiet on that one.

Seeing as you're still insisting that you know better, what's your qualifications in this area, Garf?

 

[Crispy]

What's yours? Our qualifications are irrelevant. The reported facts are not, and they're what counts.

 

[editor]

Alcohol *is* a poison, after all.

Strawman. Just about anything can be poisonous in big enough quantities.

A poison is any substance that is capable of causing injury, illness or death to an organism. 1 Salt, water and oxygen are all poisons because in high enough quantities they can harm people. Too much salt in a diet can cause serious health problems, hyper hydration can kill athletes, and too much oxygen given to a premature infant can cause permanent blindness.

Toxicologists emphasize that “the dosage makes the poison.” Although salt, water, oxygen, aspirin, alcohol beverages, and many other substances can cause poisoning in excessive amounts, it makes no sense to call them poisons.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Controversies/1119724191.html

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

it's still not what you said earlier though is it?

yes it is it's indepth and better expalined than the previous snacthed comment but it's not different in it's content...

build up would be damage storing and secreiting posion would be damage, sudden decline would be an example of systemic failure to contain the damage in its state allowing it to progress to other areas.

even on a basic health understanding you nkow that lack of vitimins causes problems for people and does damage to them long term deprivation of vitimins causes long term sever damage. short term deprivation is of course less damaging than long term damage.

this couplled to the fact that i severly doubt that anyone who drinks in modicuim would consider 3 pints excessive and yet it is over your RDA of units. (a pint over in essence) so we are constantly doing damage with alcohol, often consuming greater amounts than it healthy to do.

 

[editor]

What's yours? Our qualifications are irrelevant. The reported facts are not, and they're what counts.

Er, hello? Are you even reading this thread properly?

Garf made a claim. I posted up a series of links from credible sources - including research from one of the world's leading brain scientists - that proved his claim was wholly incorrect.

Garf is still insisting that he is correct, so it's entirely reasonable to ask him what he's basing his claim on. So far, it's just his word, so I can only assume he has qualifications in this area. Or he's just making it all up. Let's find out.

 

[Crispy]

I can only assume he has qualifications in this area.

No you can't. You're just taking the piss.

 

[editor]

No you can't. You're just taking the piss.

And you're intentionally misreading my posts, otherwise you would have seen that I have already posted up ample links to 'reported facts' that prove Garf's claim to be wholly inaccurate. My qualifications are irrelevant because I'm not making a claim that's at odds with expert opinion.

 

[dream_girl]

really brain cell death which occurse for any amount of alchol

build up would be damage storing and secreiting posion would be damage, sudden decline would be an example of systemic failure to contain the damage in its state allowing it to progress to other areas.

Those two statements are not remotely the same

You implied that even moderate drinkers would be affected by accumulative damage to their brain cells.

But that's not true - a moderate drinker does not suffer that accumulaitve damage - or at least you haven't produced evidence yet that they do.

 

[rutabowa]

i'm bored now anyway, see you guys later

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Nope. Not even close, but Garf seems to be unable to admit that he was quite wrong with his earlier claim, despite me posting up research from Professor Bartlett, who is widely acknowledged as one of the world's leading brain scientists.

again no refference to where he's regarded as the worlds leading brain scientists. Did Jazzz give you the site link? because you sure as heck using his logic to defend and define your sources...

He even questioned the man's credentials, but as soon as I posted up details of Bartlett's impeccable research background, he went quiet on that one.

lie. i asked for a study not sponsored by the alcohol companies, which you failed to provide i suggest you go back and reread the exchange...

Seeing as you're still insisting that you know better, what's your qualifications in this area, Garf?

strawman. play the ball not the player.

 

[Crispy]

*gets drunk*

 

[dream_girl]

To be honest I'm only interested in the claim that drinking alcohol kills brain cells as I read recently that this is not true and there is no evidence that this is true. I can't find any evidence that this is true, and so far I haven't seen any quoted here.

 

[editor]

lie. i asked for a study not sponsored by the alcohol companies, which you failed to provide i suggest you go back and reread the exchange...

Could you highlight the link between Professor Bartlett's research and sponsorship form the alcohol industry please?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Those two statements are not remotely the same

You implied that even moderate drinkers would be affected by accumulative damage to their brain cells.

But that's not true - a moderate drinker does not suffer that accumulaitve damage - or at least you haven't produced evidence yet that they do.

one is short hand for the other, jesus, trying to have a resoned debate with pendants is pointless....

ok fine you both are perfectly right booze is great it's a life affirming thing which does no damage to people or anything in any form or even from consiquences of it's use it's entirely a charmed susbtance and there are no ill effects ever...

mean while in the land where faries and dragons don't live... the rest of us aren't so bought into the whole pro-alcohol agenda...

I find it fasinating the levels of seld delusion people will go to defend this habit in this manner especially considering previous stances on the smoking ban... all the arguments which have been made for the smoking ban can be applied to drinking. and no doubt will be.

seems it's not a case of source for the goose...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Could you highlight the link between Professor Bartlett's research and sponsorship form the alcohol industry please?

how about you merely provide what you were asked to originally without misrepresenting other posters points and lying about them...

 

[dream_girl]

one is short hand for the other, jesus, trying to have a resoned debate with pendants is pointless....

ok fine you both are perfectly right booze is great it's a life affirming thing which does no damage to people or anything in any form or even from consiquences of it's use it's entirely a charmed susbtance and there are no ill effects ever...

mean while in the land where faries and dragons don't live... the rest of us aren't so bought into the whole pro-alcohol agenda...

I find it fasinating the levels of seld delusion people will go to defend this habit in this manner especially considering previous stances on the smoking ban... all the arguments which have been made for the smoking ban can be applied to drinking. and no doubt will be.

seems it's not a case of source for the goose...

FFS - be anti alcohol if you like but I don't see the point in just making stuff up to back your point up, and then be abusive to those who aren't taken in by it.

 

[editor]

how about you merely provide what you were asked to originally without misrepresenting other posters points and lying about them...

Could you highlight your claimed link between Professor Bartlett's research and sponsorship form the alcohol industry, please?

Could you provide proof that "alcohol destroys brain cells with any amount drunk," please?

FFS - be anti alcohol if you like but I don't see the point in just making stuff up to back your point up, and then be abusive to those who aren't taken in by it.

Absolutely.

 

[Crispy]

You're making out like it's black or white garf. you know that's not the case. If I have a glass of wine every day for the rest of my life, I will not get brain damage. If I drink all that wine intensively over a month, it'd kill me.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You're making out like it's black or white garf. you know that's not the case. If I have a glass of wine every day for the rest of my life, I will not get brain damage. If I drink all that wine intensively over a month, it'd kill me.

i'll let the editor explain what i'm thinking tbh he seem to have it all sewn up chap no point in having the debate as the editor as deemed to speak for me....

 

[ajdown]

Strawman. Just about anything can be poisonous in big enough quantities.

You then go on to add "Toxicologists emphasize that 'the dosage makes the poison'".

I agree. Yet the cumulative affects still add up. I believe the liver can 'handle' 2 units of alcohol per hour... yet many people exceed that on a regular basis.

 

[rutabowa]

i'll let the editor explain what i'm thinking tbh he seem to have it all sewn up chap no point in having the debate as the editor as deemed to speak for me....

emo!

 

[editor]

i'll let the editor explain what i'm thinking tbh he seem to have it all sewn up chap no point in having the debate as the editor as deemed to speak for me....

Or you could just admit that you've got it wrong. Might make more sense in the long term you know, because no one's agreeing with you here and the expert medical research isn't helping you either.

Yet the cumulative affects still add up. I believe the liver can 'handle' 2 units of alcohol per hour... yet many people exceed that on a regular basis.

I'm sure some people do, but that doesn't make your original "Alcohol is a poison" claim any more accurate though, does it?

 

[ovaltina]

*gets drunk*

 

[ajdown]

Or you could just admit that you've got it wrong. Might make more sense in the long term you know, because no one's agreeing with you here and the expert medical research isn't helping you either.
I'm sure some people do, but that doesn't make your original "Alcohol is a poison" claim any more accurate though, does it?

Australian government site any better? After all, Australians are not known for being shy of the odd cold tinnie, are they? http://www.nt.gov.au/health/healthdev/aodp/choose/poison.html

"Alcohol is a poison to the body, yet it has been with us so long that it is accepted in most social circles."

 

[Crispy]

Australian government site any better? After all, Australians are not known for being shy of the odd cold tinnie, are they? http://www.nt.gov.au/health/healthdev/aodp/choose/poison.html

"Alcohol is a poison to the body, yet it has been with us so long that it is accepted in most social circles."

AGain, anything can be a poison in sufficiient quantities.

Alcohol is on the 'more nasty' end of the scale though, as it's quite easy to ingest a lethal dose.

 

[editor]

Australian government site any better?

LOL. What a shonky looking page!

 

[rutabowa]

Australian government site any better? After all, Australians are not known for being shy of the odd cold tinnie, are they? http://www.nt.gov.au/health/healthdev/aodp/choose/poison.html

"Alcohol is a poison to the body, yet it has been with us so long that it is accepted in most social circles."

ha ha have you read the rest of that site (it's a teen advice page on the northern territories government website)? it is very authoritative.

" I hear stories of the new LSD drug that is being put in drinks at nightclubs. It makes you lose hours of your life. Maybe nightclubs aren't as safe as they used to be – but then, what is?"

 

[editor]

"New LSD drug" - LOL!