Book/story writing advice
- Thread starter frogwoman
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Steel Icarus
maybe I'm a maze
Write every day, whether it's good or not
I've just completed writing a full YA novel and am in a very comprehensive editing stage, so I'm going to follow this thread very closely if that's OK?
I'm very much a rookie too, hence I've been listening in to anyone with an opinion. Some of it very useful, other bits not so great ....
I'm very much a rookie too, hence I've been listening in to anyone with an opinion. Some of it very useful, other bits not so great ....
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
you don't need to explain as much as you think, trust the reader on it. Or you know, fuck em make em look it up. And do the work, thats the main bit. I'm giving advice when I don't, in fact, do the work. At least not long enough to go above short story lol.
Steel Icarus
maybe I'm a maze
Oh aye, I'm giving advice from the position of someone who only followed it for about two years and never wrote anything longer than one longform poem
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Gromit
International Man of Misery
The only piece of advice I'm following is:
Aim to write a thousand words a day.
Even if its garbage it could lead to stuff that isn't.
Most days I hit 1000-1500.
I'm up to 39k words.
Aiming for 50-70k words which is suggested for YA.
Saying that J K Rowling's first two were 74k ish and then just got longer and longer.
Aim to write a thousand words a day.
Even if its garbage it could lead to stuff that isn't.
Most days I hit 1000-1500.
I'm up to 39k words.
Aiming for 50-70k words which is suggested for YA.
Saying that J K Rowling's first two were 74k ish and then just got longer and longer.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
plagiariseAnyone want to share tips for writing? One thing I will say is that too much advice can be bad
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Defo agree with it
and if you get stuck write something else.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I agree with that.
Message me if you want to compare notes, etc etcI'm in the middle of my YA novel.
First time writing. So me too.
See, I think that's bollocks advice. You wear yourself out that way. It can also lead to thinking yourself stupid or blocked, because ideas won't come.
My advice is to read a lot. Try writing short fiction, like drabbles, using one word prompts. When you DO get good ideas, THEN allow the shit writing to pour forth. It's like turning a tap on - the first bit of water is warm, sometimes a bit mucky if you have shit pipes or it's been switched off for a while. Letting the dirty water flow allows the clean cold good stuff to come out.
Then edit, edit, edit. Too many people think editing is beneath them, like they are some kind of genius who writes pure and perfect prose/poems/whatever first time, and you shouldn't mess with it. Trust me, a good few edits, and it WILL improve.
Also, when you get a good flow going, it will reach a natural halt at some point. Don't force it when you hit it. Stop, put it away, go for a walk, and allow the brain to enter the Default Mode Network. Take a notepad and pen, or keep your phone handy - more ideas always come when you are far far away from being able to note them down
Final thing - it really is all in the preparation. Idea/s first, then research, then writing. Never ever EVER sit down to write unless you have an idea.
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Steel Icarus
maybe I'm a maze
Editing: hard agree. You never really finish a poem, do you? Just get it to the point where you can leave it alone.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I am not published. I've just written a few blogs. So this is a bit IANAL type ting but, while you are right, personally I edit little. You are right. Editing does improve it. But I have written quite a surprising amount of stuff that is good (I am told) that is just first draft and could remain, largely, as that draft. I surprise myself. But I do agree. Editing will improve things. I just baulked at your line because I do not consider myself a genius - I'm just conscious (coz I've been told as I say, which gives you confidence) I'm pretty good at getting it down first time. Sometimes.
Yeah, that ramble probably needs an edit. Can't be arsed.
Which leads me on to
Take a notepad and pen, or keep your phone handy - more ideas always come when you are far far away from being able to note them down
Great advice. I never do. Can't be arsed. It's in my head man. I'll remember it.
No I fucking won't.
And
Again great advice. It's the ideas bit I have problems with. And the 'who the fuck besides me will be interested in that'. So, can't be arsed. So, don't sit down. So, don't write. Put Urban on instead and write shit.
My advice? Don't be a lazy cunt like me.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
A Facebook post of mine:
Saying that I am deliberately trying add a description or two here and there.
Absolutely! There is always a point where I get that feeling in my belly that this is it, it's done now. Go back to that same poem a few months later, and there's always another tweak or 3 you could do to it.
Sometimes it feels like stuff plops out perfectly formed. Done it myself. Not often, but it happens. It ALWAYS needs editing though. I know a fair few people who definitely believe in their own genius, hate editing and resist improving their own work, hence that lineI am not published. I've just written a few blogs. So this is a bit IANAL type ting but, while you are right, personally I edit little. You are right. Editing does improve it. But I have written quite a surprising amount of stuff that is good (I am told) that is just first draft and could remain, largely, as that draft. I surprise myself. But I do agree. Editing will improve things. I just baulked at your line because I do not consider myself a genius - I'm just conscious (coz I've been told as I say, which gives you confidence) I'm pretty good at getting it down first time. Sometimes.
Yeah, that ramble probably needs an edit. Can't be arsed.
Which leads me on to
Great advice. I never do. Can't be arsed. It's in my head man. I'll remember it.
No I fucking won't.
And
Again great advice. It's the ideas bit I have problems with. And the 'who the fuck besides me will be interested in that'. So, can't be arsed. So, don't sit down. So, don't write. Put Urban on instead and write shit.
My advice? Don't be a lazy cunt like me.
I don't get that. I want to make it as perfect as it can be.Haha, no, you never remember
On the very odd occasion, I've managed it by repeating it over and over again (in bed, which is where it happens loads ffs). Just write the bastard down, it's so much easier 
Write for YOU. Writing for an audience, especially in the early stages, is doomed. It paralyses the flow. Thing is, if YOU find an idea funny, interesting, cathartic or upsetting, someone else will too, if you decide to share it. But don't write it for them. Make yourself laugh first, explore that idea for your own satisfaction, allow your own tears to fall first.
I'm just reading Elysium Fire by Alastair Reynolds. I know you like him a lot too. But he does over explain things at points during this, which is a bit tedious. Like partly to do with world setting, I guess for people who are not familiar. But also with character motivation. No need, I get why X would do Y. I am struggling for an example as I type this of course. Just a tendancy I noticed... No wonder his books are long.
Elmore Leonard wrote the brilliant '10 rules for writing' which covers this sort of thing.I'm just reading Elysium Fire by Alastair Reynolds. I know you like him a lot too. But he does over explain things at points during this, which is a bit tedious. Like partly to do with world setting, I guess for people who are not familiar. But also with character motivation. No need, I get why X would do Y. I am struggling for an example as I type this of course. Just a tendancy I noticed... No wonder his books are long.
Elmore Leonard's rules for writers
Next month, the doyen of hardboiled crime writers is publishing a new book, 10 Rules of Writing. The following is a brief summary of his advice
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
This... if you think there's a something that might be a bit too obscure, write it in blue ink, like on Wikipedia.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I would say write for yourself and assume nothing you ever write might ever be published. Like many people I once entertained dreams of writing a novel and attended a creative writing course, but soon gave up because I am too lazy to contemplate doing the research involved to make sure you get your facts right. So I never even tried to give it a go because stupidly I was already imagining it my novel being rejected by publishers. Which is as pretentious as is self defeating.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Write what you know, write what you don't know. Listen to advice but not to begrudgers.
Always keep a pen and pad by your side.
Always keep a pen and pad by your side.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Any list of rules in the Guardian makes me immediately want to break them.Elmore Leonard wrote the brilliant '10 rules for writing' which covers this sort of thing.
Elmore Leonard's rules for writers
Next month, the doyen of hardboiled crime writers is publishing a new book, 10 Rules of Writing. The following is a brief summary of his advicewww.google.com
JK Rowling used adverbs and made £800+ million.
He made 8 mil.
Not too shabby, but I ain't taking him as gospel.
It was printed in there but that wasn't the original source.
Profit doesn't make a good writer/story.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Doesn't matter what the source is. It's the fact they put their stamp of approval to that arbitrary set of rules.
They are great at finding some pretentious twunt who spouts with authority ten rules of fashion for over 50's.
Fuck you I'll wear what I want.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
PTK
Paul Kegan
Each chapter should be a separate file.
At the end of the day, make the file read-only and back it up on a data stick.
The next day, save the file as "v2", and at the end of the day, make this read-only and back it up on a data stick, and so on.
At the end of the week, back everything up on a second data stick.
I have done this, to avoid problems with version control. If you have one big file, you can accidentally change bits without realising. If you do not have a different version for each day's work, you cannot resurrect that which might have been useful, and you can accidentally change that you did not intend to change.
At the end of the day, make the file read-only and back it up on a data stick.
The next day, save the file as "v2", and at the end of the day, make this read-only and back it up on a data stick, and so on.
At the end of the week, back everything up on a second data stick.
I have done this, to avoid problems with version control. If you have one big file, you can accidentally change bits without realising. If you do not have a different version for each day's work, you cannot resurrect that which might have been useful, and you can accidentally change that you did not intend to change.
PTK
Paul Kegan
The amount of sales is not a measure of how good the writer is.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Actually I've realised what it is that's bugged me.
1. It's a list of don't not do's
2. It's about the delivery system not the content.
He's saying 'use a paint brush not a palate knife'.
I want to hear 'paint the picture you see in your soul'.
Some of the best games I've played had shit graphics.
Some of the worst games I've played had the best graphics.
Substance trumps style every day for me.
Harry Potter 1 was written poorly. But boy did the story grab the world by the balls.
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