Bizarre few months for Religion and the State in Ireland

[8den]

The last few month have provided amazing amounts of Religious lunacy in Ireland. From an order of Nuns hiring a PR "guru" to deny the evidence of a mass grave on the grounds of one of their old "mother and babies homes". The state "gifted" the National Maternity Hospital to another order of Nuns who already are shirking on the debts they owe their victims (mainly pregnant women imprisoned in their Laundries).

The Citizens Assembly after careful and considered review advised a full repeal of the 8th amendment. The government parties response? Simon Convey said he was "uncomfortable" with the citizen's findings while Michael Martin has said he opposes Abortion even in cases of rape and incest.

Then in a move that should annoy both atheists and genuine theists, it was made mandatory to stand during the Dail's Catholic Prayer that starts every session.

Finally this. I'm quietly confident that this move was made by some lunkheaded atheist trying to prove a point. The original interview was broadcast in 2015, so anyone offended by it's "blasphemous" nature had two years to raise hell. I'll also lay odds that said lunkhead never bothered to check with Stephen Fry before involving him in this legal mess. If this person who marched into Ennis Garda had the courage of their convictions they'd have staged a public breaking of the law, and then either turned themselves in or let someone else report it. Then they could deal with the potential hassle and expense of a legal case, instead of possibly entangling Mr Fry into this ridiculous mess.

Sorry. that's quite a rant. I am however quite tickled by the fact that there's probably a couple of Garda in County Claire currently reading the Wikipedia entries on "blasphemy" & "apostasy"


Some supporting links.

Our Worst Fears

An article including the PR statement by the Sisters of Bon Secours after the first report of the mass graves in Tuam.




National Maternity Hospital controversy: Five things you need to know today - Independent.ie

Concerns about possible Vatican intervention in new maternity hospital

Background the NHM

Citizens' Assembly votes overwhelmingly for women to have the right to abortion in Ireland - Independent.ie


Simon Coveney 'uncomfortable' with abortion recommendations

Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin refuses to endorse abortion in cases of incest | JOE.ie

The Citizens' Assembly and governing parties reaction.

TDs have voted to make it compulsory to stand during the Dáil prayer

New law on Dail Prayer.

Blasphemy law in Ireland

Blasphemy law in the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

And the offending Interview broadcast in 2015

 

[Idris2002]

I'm not coming home if I can help it.

 

[8den]

I'm not coming home if I can help it.

Tories to right of me, FF/FG to right of me...

 

[likesfish]

ffs why did you just miss being under the british boot so much you had to find another abusive relationship?

 

[8den]

ffs why did you just miss being under the british boot so much you had to find another abusive relationship?

Funnily enough the Nothern Prods refused to join the free state, because they worried about becoming a religious minority in a monothetist state. and by walking away they ensured Ireland would become that.

 

[likesfish]

Funnily enough the Nothern Prods refused to join the free state, because they worried about becoming a religious minority in a monothetist state. and by walking away they ensured Ireland would become that.

while trying to do the same idiocy in their own little bit of land

 

[Buckaroo]

Proposed referendum on the question of amending Article 40.6.1(i) of the Constitution to remove the offence of blasphemy.

Referendum on blasphemy being prepared as complaint made against Stephen Fry

 

[8den]

Proposed referendum on the question of amending Article 40.6.1(i) of the Constitution to remove the offence of blasphemy.

Referendum on blasphemy being prepared as complaint made against Stephen Fry

If only he had carried out a few illegal abortions too....

 

[Idris2002]

ffs why did you just miss being under the british boot so much you had to find another abusive relationship?

Your lot tied our main guy to a chair and shot him, which didn't help matters.

Anyway, I'm worried about this latest round of agitation. The Repealers have got the momentum, but will they be able to carry the country with them? Or will they find that Dublin isn't the whole of Ireland.

 

[flypanam]

Nevermind Dublin I seriously doubt SF will be able to put forward a coherent position on repealing the 8th and getting their members out to campaign for it.

 

[Idris2002]

The one bright spot is that the lunatic fringe have nothing like the traction they had 34 years ago, or even the understanding of the society they live in. Advising NI Catholics to vote DUP, I ask you!

I was talking to my mum the other night, and her line is that behind the handing over of the hospital to the nuns lies another agenda - that agenda being the desire to defend private health care at all costs, regardless of what it might mean for the public sector.

 

[flypanam]

And I think she's right, and not just health, education too.

the catholic right in the independent/FF/FG and the neo liberal centre represented by Coveney and Varadkar have an agenda they can come to some uneasy alliance to support. I've no doubt that if such a grouping does have an agenda it will attract the Labour right too esp power whores like Alan Kelly.

You can see the likes of Norris rolling in behind them too, because after all with gay marriage being legal, he has what he wanted. I think repealing the 8th will be harder to win than the equality as on the face of it, equality benefited a much smaller minority, was socially and economically without cost, and generated international good press.

I was musing with a mate just last weekend would the Jobstown trial and the open bullshitting of the establishment bring more of Karen O' Connell's 'Dregs' into political activity especially as lack of abortion in Ireland affects wc families more than others.

 

[krtek a houby]

Ireland abortion referendum set for May

Expect the usual interference from Iona etc...

 

[Teaboy]

Ireland abortion referendum set for May

Expect the usual interference from Iona etc...

Any Irish urbs have some initial thoughts about the likely outcome?

 

[krtek a houby]

Any Irish urbs have some initial thoughts about the likely outcome?

It will pass. Just. And the lead up to the day will be bitter.

(In a way, I'm glad I'm out of it)

 

[Idris2002]

It will pass. Just. And the lead up to the day will be bitter.

(In a way, I'm glad I'm out of it)

This. This is the last stand for the old guard. They will throw everything they have at it, and they will stoop to the lowest methods.

 

[krtek a houby]

This. This is the last stand for the old guard. They will throw everything they have at it, and they will stoop to the lowest methods.

Yeah, have a bad feeling it's going to be nasty - I already can see FB posts from a minority of mates where I will have to bite my tongue...

 

[Teaboy]

Will Irish citizens based in other countries be able to vote? If so can it be done by postal vote?

 

[krtek a houby]

Will Irish citizens based in other countries be able to vote? If so can it be done by postal vote?

Good question. Haven't a clue, personally. Been out of the place for a long time. I doubt it but maybe ex-pats who are only recently moved might be able to vote?

 

[Teaboy]

Good question. Haven't a clue, personally. Been out of the place for a long time. I doubt it but maybe ex-pats who are only recently moved might be able to vote?

It strikes me that there are a fair amount of younger generation Irish living elsewhere at the moment. This demographic would surely have an influence on the vote?

 

[krtek a houby]

It strikes me that there are a fair amount of younger generation Irish living elsewhere at the moment. This demographic would surely have an influence on the vote?

Possibly but I really don't know. Perhaps some other Irish urbs may be better informed?

 

[Idris2002]

Will Irish citizens based in other countries be able to vote? If so can it be done by postal vote?

No. We have never been allowed a vote. Because if we were, we would vote on the basis of "from hell's heart I stab at thee".

 

[Idris2002]

It strikes me that there are a fair amount of younger generation Irish living elsewhere at the moment. This demographic would surely have an influence on the vote?

They did in the marriage equality reffo. That was because they were able to come home to the places where they were registered. Stay away too long, though, and your place on the electoral register will probably lapse.

 

[Mordi]

I looked into registering to vote in the referendum and I *think* you have to be registered to vote in the last election before you can vote in a referendum. Not 100% on that, but I was hoping the government would collapse just so I could squeeze in.

 

[Idris2002]

It's getting tasty at home. Latest jolly jape of the anti-abortionists has been to hand out "strike 4 repeal" placards to unsuspecting participants in the latest pro-choice march. Why would they do that? Because these placards had the symbol of Mosley's BUF on them.

This is the gobshite (in the MAGA cap) responsible:



Oh, and the government are releasing their policy paper on repeal:

21 things that will be included in the abortion legislation if a referendum passes

 

[krtek a houby]

I can't follow that at all, are the anti-abortionists using underhand tactics, I take it?

 

[Idris2002]

I can't follow that at all, are the anti-abortionists using underhand tactics, I take it?

Yes, they were trying to produce images they could smear the repeal side with.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The cabinet signed off on the 8th amendment referendum bill 2 days ago..
Cabinet signs off on 8th amendment referendum bill
The referendum will go ahead.

People here are very much aggrieved and angry with the church who really are on a road to nowhere....and the pro life campaign is quiet enough outside Dublin...there's a bit of noise in Dublin and some media coverage of a few protests but in general there's not a lot of any campaigning going on outside Dublin...

People will decide...and the church has alienated enough people to make sure that their once domineering attitude is now a barely heard whimper.

 

[CRI]

Government to consider introducing free contraception for all

The Government will consider providing free contraception, in the event the Eighth Amendment is removed from the Constitution.

Minister for Health Simon Harris has confirmed his department will make proposals by the end of March to reduce crisis pregnancies.

Crikey, that would be brilliant.

 

[flypanam]

Some history of the 8th amendment and the reactionaries in the wider Catholic church.
Story of the 8th: how right-wing Catholic groups staged a remarkable political coup | JOE.ie