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Bicycle Racing Thread 2013

Wiggins doing Roubaix? This is news. Would love to see him have a go at that. Awesome!


He's had a go at it before and finished low 20s. He hasn't a hope of winning, that race above all others requires not only to be the strongest but a healthy does of luck. He has no pedigree on Pave and crucially not enough upper body strength. And Chinny, Boonen et al would need to all have the flu that weekend. Not a prayer.
 
Maybe if the Sky boys go hell for leather to prepare for it, he may glide across. Agree it needs a strength he's not known for.

The poor fucker needs something to aim for though. Maybe Giro or Vuelta next year.
 
He's had a go at it before and finished low 20s. He hasn't a hope of winning, that race above all others requires not only to be the strongest but a healthy does of luck. He has no pedigree on Pave and crucially not enough upper body strength. And Chinny, Boonen et al would need to all have the flu that weekend. Not a prayer.

Agreed. Seems to be becoming one of his targets atm, though. Then again, the races he's targeting seem to change from interview to interview.

edit: and as Ted Striker says, he needs something to aim for. And something to justify Sky paying his wages for another year.
 
Maybe if the Sky boys go hell for leather to prepare for it, he may glide across.


No hiding places on the Arenberg or Mens-en-Pévèle. Doesn't matter what the team do for you, you can't be towed across. The race is lost for many on the Arenberg alone. And Sky have been pretty awful in the classics thus far, all the effort seems to go into the TdF above all else.
 
Sure, but if any team could change that, it's Sky. Would be dull as fuck, but if they focussed all their energies into it (and rode their luck - easier in a bunch), they could get somewhere.
 
Oh, and Nigel Irritable, what do you make of the rumours that Deignan is off to Sky at the end of the year?

I think it sounds like a good move for both - assuming that Deignan's revival this year doesn't pressage three shit years to follow like the last time he was good. He's been consistently one of the strongest climber in the US races, first in the Gila, second in the T de Beauce, and would have finished higher than sixth in Utah if he hadn't had to drag Euser up a number of climbs. That already means he's riding at the level of a good World Tour climbing domestique, and Sky do seem to be able to improve almost everyone's climbing further.

From Sky's point of view, they are likely to lose Uran and a few more, and they've probably laid down big money to keep Froome, Porte and Henao, so a good climber who comes pretty cheap has to be an attractive option. Plus Ireland is quite a big market for the sponsor and there aren't many Irish riders who have the requisite level, are out of contract and would fit into the team.

As a not particularly related aside, here are the Irish riders I can think of in the top two divisions:

1) Martin (Garmin). He's only leaving Garmin if somewhere offers him insane money and leadership, which is conceivable but not at Sky where they don't need another leader.
2) Roche (Saxo). He'd actually fit in well at Sky, and would probably benefit from going there, but he's still in contract at Saxo.
3) Deignan (UHC). When he's on a good year he's a good climber, and if Sky don't bring him back to the World Tour someone else will.
4) Brammeier (Champion Systems). He strikes me as someone who is pretty good at a lot of things but not very good at anything, which means that on a big team he's the sort of guy who fills out a sprint train or words for the leaders in semi-classics. I'm sure he'd sign for Sky in a heartbeat, but there are countless riders who can fill out that kind of domestique role.
5) Irvyne (UHC). A track world champion making a switch to road racing is right in Sky's wheelhouse, but he's not from the British Cycling programme and he broke his leg in one of his first races for UHC meaning he's been out all season. It also means that I've no idea what his road potential might be.
6) Clancy (Novo Nordisk). Went from the Irish amateur ranks right into the all diabetic Pro Conti team. Doesn't have the requisite level.
7) Lavery (Cofidis stagiare). Did the old school anglophone thing and got a shot by winning a bunch of French amateur races. I've no idea how good he'll end up being, but Sky don't really go around pinching Pro Conti team's stagiares very often.

So if the sponsors actually want an Irish rider (and they may not give a shit at all), Deignan and Brammeier are the only realistic options and Deignan would be more obviously useful to them. Also if they'd wanted either of them they could have had them for this year, and while Deignan looks a much better signing now than he did a year ago, Brammeier's situation hasn't really changed.

Did Sky's crop of Italians have anything to do with pleasing the sponsor? Or was it just a coincidence that Italy is Sky's second biggest market?
 
The Vuelta's list of GC men and climbers is looking very interesting. Lots of rider I like are leading teams (Betancur, Pozzovivo, Martin, Purito, Majka, Roche, Nibali, De Gendt, Mollema, Henao etc) and the only really strong GC rider announced so far that I strongly don't want to see win is Valverde. Also Basso, if he still counts as a really strong GC rider. It's a wierd feeling going into a GT knowing that win is very likely to be contested by people I'd actually be happy to see win. I can't remember when that was last the case.

(Just as long as fucking Valverde is cooked from the Tour).
 
I think it sounds like a good move for both - assuming that Deignan's revival this year doesn't pressage three shit years to follow like the last time he was good. He's been consistently one of the strongest climber in the US races, first in the Gila, second in the T de Beauce, and would have finished higher than sixth in Utah if he hadn't had to drag Euser up a number of climbs. That already means he's riding at the level of a good World Tour climbing domestique, and Sky do seem to be able to improve almost everyone's climbing further.

From Sky's point of view, they are likely to lose Uran and a few more, and they've probably laid down big money to keep Froome, Porte and Henao, so a good climber who comes pretty cheap has to be an attractive option. Plus Ireland is quite a big market for the sponsor and there aren't many Irish riders who have the requisite level, are out of contract and would fit into the team.



Did Sky's crop of Italians have anything to do with pleasing the sponsor? Or was it just a coincidence that Italy is Sky's second biggest market?

Disappointingly reasoned analysis ;). Reckon he might well do a good job anyways.

On the Italian Sky riders, I always assumed it was to do with their sponsor's interest in the Italian market but not so sure given that they seemed happy to let them go.
 
The Vuelta's list of GC men and climbers is looking very interesting. Lots of rider I like are leading teams (Betancur, Pozzovivo, Martin, Purito, Majka, Roche, Nibali, De Gendt, Mollema, Henao etc) and the only really strong GC rider announced so far that I strongly don't want to see win is Valverde. Also Basso, if he still counts as a really strong GC rider. It's a wierd feeling going into a GT knowing that win is very likely to be contested by people I'd actually be happy to see win. I can't remember when that was last the case.

(Just as long as fucking Valverde is cooked from the Tour).

Worryingly, piti.valv looked rather good at last year's Vuelta despite having a Tour in his legs. Basso also looks like he's coming into some sort of form, but I'd be surprised if he was able to mount a serious challenge. Betancur ftw, hopefully. Or Pinot if he manages to not descend like a lesser spotted Schleck.
 
Worryingly, piti.valv looked rather good at last year's Vuelta despite having a Tour in his legs. Basso also looks like he's coming into some sort of form, but I'd be surprised if he was able to mount a serious challenge. Betancur ftw, hopefully. Or Pinot if he manages to not descend like a lesser spotted Schleck.

Pinot should be pleased when he looks at the Vuelta stage profiles, which seem to be stage after stage of:

____________/

He's another guy I'd love to see well, if only because I couldn't help feeling sorry for him at the Tour.
 
Disappointingly reasoned analysis ;). Reckon he might well do a good job anyways.

I hope so. He comes across as a likeable guy. It's strange to think that round about 2008/2009 he was the young guy who was going to put Irish cycling back on the map. Things really didn't work out for him, with injuries and mysterious illnesses and the like. So it's good that he finally seems to be getting his career back on course.
 
Just reached an interesting anecdote in Sean Kelly's new "autobiography", "Hunger", dealing with Lombardia 86. Apparently, there has long been speculation that a deal was done to allow Baronchelli of the Del Tongo team to win, although I'd never read about it before.

Kelly's book rather bluntly confirms that a deal was done between his Kas team and Del Tongo. Kelly was the favourite to win for the third time in four years when it became clear that a small select group he was in would contest the victory. But Del Tongo offered his team a great deal of money and Kelly and his domestique, Acacio, were ordered not to chase if Baronchelli made a move.

Kelly also rather strongly implies that a crash he'd suffered a little before the deal was done, when he was clipped by the race organiser's car and hit the deck, was not an accident at all, but a very strong reminder of the organiser's desire for a home win. Lombardia at that point had been dominated by foreigners for all but one of the previous seven editions.

On a somewhat more amusing note, he also reveals that about the only thing that regularly frightened him was being driven around at night by Jean de Gribaldy, the legendary team boss. De Gribaldy, in Kelly's words, was a big believer in taking the "racing line" around corners on isolated roads in the dark, to save a bit of time.
 
Actually, one thing I'd love to hear when riders confirm that a cash deal was done, is the sum of money involved! How much exactly did it cost to buy a shot at a Monument?

Kelly must have had at worst a 50-50 chance of winning. Six riders in the group, including one of his teammates, Anderson the only other guy who could sprint, the rest of the field well out of it and he'd won it twice in the previous three years. Presumably the sum of money would have had to be very substantial for the offer to even be considered.
 
I've always thought its never as simple a just a DS having a buy-off fund for such an occasion; the amounts of money alluded to are always in the tens of thousands of US $s, often equal to or higher than the prize money on offer. Sponsors play a big part in the equation, Del Tongo have far more to gain from a Lombardia win than a Basque fizzy pop factory...and this was the 80s, almost everything on the bicycle was Italian - bars,gruppos, tyres, clothing...there would have been plenty of contributors to the pot.

Of course Kelly was famously once asked what was the best bike? Colnago? De Rosa? His laconic answer was 'whoever pays me the most money to ride their bike.' Kelly always looked after himself financially, thats why he had such a long career. He was blooded as a neo pro by Driessens, possibly the trickiest DS ever after all.
 
On the subject of cycling books I see both Wegelius and Hayles have books out...without wishing to diss Hayles is there really enough in his career to read about? Is there a page on him winning the World Madison title and then maybe 100 more on how he had everthing he owned sprayed up in rainbow colours to remind everybody forever? Or maybe a page or too on how his hematocrit was over 50 for the worlds and he was 'withdrawn' from competition? I have heard a couple of great stories about Hayles which I'll bet are not in that book from my mate who raced with him as a junior...

Wegelius is a different matter - interested in a Brit/Finn dommie in an Italian team, must have some great stories.
 
Is there a page on him winning the World Madison title and then maybe 100 more on how he had everthing he owned sprayed up in rainbow colours to remind everybody forever?

:D:D.

I've never really taken to Hayles myself, so not bothered too much about his book. The Wegelius one though sounds like a decent read from the reviews I've seen.

Oh, and what stories you got for us?
 
On the subject of buying wins, didn't Kolobnev bandy about the number of $100,000?

I think I remember something along those lines being mentioned somewhere.

I suppose a win is worth different amounts to different riders. And not always in easily quantifiable ways. Thinking back, Zaugg strikes me as the least accomplished Monument winner in recent years. He had the best day of his life on a bike and somehow won Lombardia. Presumably to that sort of rider a big classic win is worth a lot more as a bargaining chip for future contracts and also in emotional terms than a single one of a billion or so wins was worth to Kelly. Then again it would also take more money to impact a big star's life.

How much does winning Lombardia add to your next contract? I wonder how much a pay rise Vansummeren got when he resigned for Garmin after winning Roubaix?

(This is not meant to imply that Zaugg would have been open to offers!)
(Also, I should be clear that in Kelly's account he didn't sell the race. His team sold the race, or more precisely a guarantee that they wouldn't chase, and then ordered Kelly and Acacio not to chase).
 
(Also, I should be clear that in Kelly's account he didn't sell the race. His team sold the race, or more precisely a guarantee that they wouldn't chase, and then ordered Kelly and Acacio not to chase).


An important distinction however Kelly had the gravity in the pro ranks to make his threat possibly the only one worth buying off. Thats kind of a compliment and Kelly would have taken that (and the dough) well.
 
(Also, I should be clear that in Kelly's account he didn't sell the race. His team sold the race, or more precisely a guarantee that they wouldn't chase, and then ordered Kelly and Acacio not to chase).

An important difference. And if you have someone like Kelly on your team you're probably a little bit more open to letting a race go anyway, safe in the knowledge there'll be other wins on the way.
 
Oh, and what stories you got for us?


While Millar didn't contest the nationals for a few years in the 2000s Hayles considered himself the dominant 'home' rider. According to my source who rode the nationals at the time Hayles turned up one year and attempted to bludgeon everybody in the car park about how strong he felt, how well he was riding, how the course suited him perfectly....he was dropped on the first significant climb and was bollocking the rest of the field to slow down as it was too early in the race to ride hard :)D like thats his decision to make) before angrily shouting 'when I catch you cunts I'll show you no mercy.' He never regained contact with said cunts all afternoon. A few unkind peers used to call him 'gob' Hayles.

My other story will identify my source to anybody au fait with the BC junior setup in the mid to late 90s, so I will save that.
 
Oh and theres the incident only 3 or so years ago where Tony Gibb drove his Audi Q7 (how does Tony Gibb afford such an expensive motor? Chris Newton arrived at the same meeting in an A6 Avant S-Line...these are domestic 'pros'??) over the foot of a fairly well known and bad tempered member of the London bike shop fraternity. Instead of apologising Gibb went on the offensive and was very offensive. Hayles joined in. Both got their arses kicked by the injured party and his wife :D. Hayles did appear in the pub later and saw the funny side of it by all accounts. Gibb is a horrible cunt though.
 
Not familiar with Gibb, but good to see I was right to have marked 'Mr 50%' as a bit of a tube.
 
Whilst mentioning overpaid, overlauded domestic 'pros' who never cut it on the continent I should mention one of the true unsung heroes of British exports to Europe in the 80s namely Dave Akam of Elmers End, London. Dave rode as a domestique in the GIS-Gelati team for none other than Francesco Moser, most notably in Mosers slightly dodgy 1984 Giro Win - and most definitely did cut it but definitely has less to show for it financially. Still see him about on the bike, he is a bona fide member of the old school and has paid his dues and worked his arse off for little reward.
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Pretty surprised at the top 10 today at Eneco. Thought Twiggins Biggins would have monstered it tbh.
 
The whole result is a bit strange. Dumoulin, Sergent and Langeveld ahead of both Wiggins and Phinney? That's just odd. Beating one of those guys happens, but both of them? Particularly as Wiggins won the Polish TT and Phinney was allegedly targeting this so it's not like they were expected to have no form.
 
Here are the current World Tour rankings, for anyone who is interested. They are the only official rider rankings for top division riders, although I suspect that more people pay attention to CQ rankings in so far as they pay attention to this at all. The WT rankings aren't even the same as the top secret "sporting criterion" figures used to determine promotion and relegation, although apparently they map pretty closely to each other. Is there even a prize for being top at the end of the season?

Anyway, it does actually give a pretty good idea of who has been at the top of the sport over the season, albeit with a few quirks - you can get high up on it by winning a race like the TDU or Beijing, and it seems to be heavily biased towards GC results. So the likes of Cavendish, Kittel and Greipel are way underrated. Also, how is Spilak in the top 20? Did he get some big wins that I somehow didn't notice? Weening too.

http://www.pelotonwatch.com/rankings/worldtour/individual.html

1 FROOME Christopher GBR SKY PROCYCLING 587
2 SAGAN Peter SVK CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING 409
3 RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin ESP KATUSHA 390
4 QUINTANA ROJAS Nairo Alexander COL MOVISTAR TEAM 366
5 CANCELLARA Fabian SUI RADIOSHACK LEOPARD 355
6 VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro ESP MOVISTAR TEAM 334
7 PORTE Richie AUS SKY PROCYCLING 327
8 NIBALI Vincenzo ITA ASTANA PRO TEAM 322
9 KREUZIGER Roman CZE TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF 308
10 MARTIN Daniel IRL GARMIN SHARP 287
11 BETANCUR GOMEZ Carlos Alberto COL AG2R LA MONDIALE 255
12 CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto ESP TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF 252
13 FARIA DA COSTA Rui Alberto POR MOVISTAR TEAM 239
14 HENAO MONTOYA Sergio Luis COL SKY PROCYCLING 227
15 SCARPONI Michele ITA LAMPRE-MERIDA 213
16 MOLLEMA Bauke NED BELKIN PRO CYCLING TEAM 211
17 SPILAK Simon SLO KATUSHA 199
18 KWIATKOWSKI Michal POL OMEGA PHARMA-QUICKSTEP 194
19 CHAVANEL Sylvain FRA OMEGA PHARMA-QUICKSTEP 188
20 WEENING Pieter NED ORICA GREENEDGE 172
 
. Also, how is Spilak in the top 20? Did he get some big wins that I somehow didn't notice? Weening too.

Top-10 at Vuelta Andalucia, Paris-Nice, Pais Vasco, and Suisse and second at Romandie. Plus a smattering of top ten stage finishes.

As much as I enjoy seeing consistency being rewarded, it does seem a bit...generous.
 
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