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Bicycle Racing Thread 2013

Tour of Qatar Women's Race

Friday 1st Feb 2013 stage 4 - Sealine Beach Resort
arrBlue.gif
Doha Corniche 86.5 km (Final Stage)
Details here...

http://www.letour.com/indexTQL_us.html

OVERALL STANDINGS ON TIME AFTER STAGE 3
http://tinyurl.com/a67ouka(From 9:00am until 10:30am)

90 minutes of early season women's racing can't be a bad thing :cool:

HTH
 
Barking_Mad said:
Wiggins says he wont defend TDF in 2013, but will be riding for Froome.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/22/wiggins-froome-sky-tour-de-france
Click to expand...


It's a travesty Sir Brad of the Sideburns is not allowed to defend his jersey IMO :hmm:

If Froome had any class (and was less of an ambitious little sh*te) he'd understand and let Brad defend (if Wiggins decided for/by himself not to defend the jersey, that's a completely different story IMO) :hmm:

Froome will I feel buckle and break under any sustained pressure in a leader's jersey in the tour, and I think Bertie will ride Froome off his wheel very easily when the climbing really starts :hmm:

Not good news for British cycling IMO
 
^What bollocks :D

I think it's very gracious (and a little bit tactical with my limited knowledge of the hillier TdF course for 2013) of Sir sideburns and merely continues him on the path of just doing no wrong.
 
Giro parcours better suits Wiggins. Plus Italy is Sky's other (more cycling crazy) target market. Wiggins riding the Giro makes perfect sense, he only needs to turn up to the Tour to get the column inches over here.
 
In less distinguished news, young Bryan Coquard got his first win as a pro today. Not exactly a field of world class sprinters, but good to see.
 
Ted Striker said:
^What bollocks :D

I think it's very gracious (and a little bit tactical with my limited knowledge of the hillier course for 2013) of Sir sideburns and merely continues him on the path of just doing no wrong.
Click to expand...

Not bollocks, so much as an opinion of cycling and it's traditions

It might have been gracious if it was Wiggin's own call, but I really don't believe that it was

I agree the Giro suits Brad better, but that's not the point at all, a champion should be allowed (is entitled even) to defend his title (if, of course he wants to) and team orders to the contrary shouldn't be given, I believe the tradition is in cycling to let the riders sort it out on the road (as long as it doesn't blow both riders chances and thereby destroys any chances the team might have for rewards/palmares from the event)

LeMond/Hinault springs to mind, Hinault was pledged to support LeMond in return for favours done in a previous tour, and he then attacked LeMond (Hinault was in fact trying to win the tour for himself despite not having the legs to do so IMO, despite Hinault's protestations he was "simply encouraging the young LeMond to ride at his best" :D )

LeMond proved the better man and history carries the (IMO) right result

I believe Froome's attack on Wiggins in the situation was more or less equivalent to Hinault's on LeMonde, and both Froome and Hinault were equally disloyal to Wiggins and LeMonde respectively in the circumstances

I can understand that a team's best interests may not be served in this circumstance, but cycling does have traditions and letting the champion defend is one of them.

How else are we to know if Brad could have won 2 or 3 consecutive tours if he is not allowed to defend/compete for them?

If you can show me Brad isn't defending the jersey by choice I'd accept it.

If Brad's chosen to not to defend the jersey because he doesn't have the legs to do Bertie (who has to favourite, if he doesn't eat any more Spanish beef in the meantime ;) )

I still can't believe he got his ban so quickly, and while we are at it I think LA is still lying his arse off, to stay out of jail (he has to deny any doping in his return, to avoid confessing before the statute of limitations comes into effect)

However it still wouldn't endear Froome to me, I saw him attack his team leader on La Toussuire last summer (he wasn't going to take the tour off of Brad, I believe there were 4KM to go), it wasn't before Yates screamed down the radio to him to stop being a c*nt that he backed off, and went back to doing his job rather than attacking the team leader apparently just for shits and giggles, he clearly didn't have a plan, and it was a fucking stupid thing to do, very indicative of an inexperienced rider getting excited and doing something ridiculous -like attack his team leader when he is supposed to be riding support (IMO of course ;)) .

He is IMO a (selfish) kid, a few years in the peleton usually fixes that. I as yet don't see any proof whatsoever of his having learned that lesson.

I don't doubt, or try to suggest he isn't a talented rider, just that he's not yet "rounded out" his character just yet ;)

Oh and I feel Cav made the right call in going to OPQS, he should compete for green, and Sky proved last summer they weren't interested in supporting his ambitions, they wanted yellow and got it, this year with a revealed intent to go for yellow again, Cav clearly wasn't going to get any more support (or any closer to another green jersey) from Sky than he got last year, so what's the world's best sprinter to do but find a team that can support his interests?

I have no emotional investment at all in these opinions, they are based on my understanding/perception of the situations (if we all had the same way of seeing everything life would be very dull indeed IMO ;) )...

OK, So there's my understanding of Brad, young Master Froome, Bertie the Bull Biter, LA-that-lies and Cav (who's my favourite rider since King Kelly and GJT) for the record, so if you want to light the burners whilst I don an asbestos suit we can get on with it ;)
 
Wiggins could quite easily soft pedal the Giro and do his try and do do his team mate over at the Tour. But he'll do what he's told to do by the team radio, same as every other rider. Almost enough to make you pine for a genuine bastard like Hinault :D

Agreed on Cav, fwiw. I get the impression he was something of a vanity signing for the sponsors who wanted their logo on the front pages when he won the Olympics. Was always going to be a bad fit, imo.
 
The Boy said:
Wiggins could quite easily soft pedal the Giro and do his try and do do his team mate over at the Tour. But he'll do what he's told to do by the team radio, same as every other rider. Almost enough to make you pine for a genuine bastard like Hinault :D

Agreed on Cav, fwiw. I get the impression he was something of a vanity signing for the sponsors who wanted their logo on the front pages when he won the Olympics. Was always going to be a bad fit, imo.
Click to expand...

Wiggins is a far better rider (and leader IMO) than Froome, and you are certainly right about his conformist nature, he isn't a rebel (except in fashion terms :p)

I always loved Hinault's aggressive nature and those "WTF! moments" when he'd go and do something a little daft (like ride straight into a bunch of protestors on the road, and start swinging at them :D )

Oh how we laughed ;)
 
Although I think Wiggins is probably the better rider, I do think that Froome could've won the Tour last year, easily. He was having the race of his life, and I'm not sure he'll ever be that comfortable again? It wasn't only that one stage where he could've dropped Wiggins, there were a few.

And I don't think Wiggins time trail would have been enough to catch Froome if he had been allowed to drop him.
 
Fez909 said:
Although I think Wiggins is probably the better rider, I do think that Froome could've won the Tour last year, easily. He was having the race of his life, and I'm not sure he'll ever be that comfortable again? It wasn't only that one stage where he could've dropped Wiggins, there were a few.

And I don't think Wiggins time trail would have been enough to catch Froome if he had been allowed to drop him.
Click to expand...


Froome didn't have a plan and if you really believe he could take more out of Wiggins in 4KM than Wiggins could get back in the next 8 stages and then the 53KM ITT I have a bridge to sell you, centrally located etc ;)

Froome was clearly running on adrenaline, and his excitement was the reason he went, he MAY have won the stage (it was only 4 KM to go), but the margin he could have got would have been minimal, and I don't believe a rider in his second tour (in his first for BarloWorld his best was a 14th in the ITT, and he sat in the laughing group for most of the tour) has the experience and the legs to not only beat every other team, but his own team captain as well, we'll have to agree to differ if you think he could ;)

Not to mention that many riders would remember that disloyalty for a long time, and would bear it in mind when racing, consequentially I believe Froome would have shot himself in the foot career-wise if he had ignored Sean's orders and continued to attack.

It's likely that Sky would have dropped him (as unreliable/a liability) from the team roster as a consequence, and other teams would be reluctant IMO to pick up a rider who has had long-term health problems, and has been seen to be incapable of riding to team orders, to the extent he attacked his team leader in a major tour (which would likely have destroyed the teams plans/strategy for that tour and made basically a bollocks of it all)

Froome (barring accidents and his recurrent health problems) will be a great cyclist, but I don't see him as being close to the quality of Wiggins yet, and although (as I said earlier) he hasn't endeared himself to me, I sincerely hope he hasn't bitten off more than he can chew because the (psychological) damage that can do, can end careers (it's broken some huge talents in the past) and being the declared team leader for the major tour of the year carries more weight/responsibility than some can handle

I wonder, who'd have won the fight between Froome and Wiggins later behind the team bus, if Froome had stolen stage 11 ? ;)
 
Bluesman said:
LeMond/Hinault springs to mind, Hinault was pledged to support LeMond in return for favours done in a previous tour, and he then attacked LeMond (Hinault was in fact trying to win the tour for himself despite not having the legs to do so IMO, despite Hinault's protestations he was "simply encouraging the young LeMond to ride at his best" :D )

LeMond proved the better man and history carries the (IMO) right result
Click to expand...

Excuse me but i think this is quite a lot of tosh.

If Hinault had not gone on a suicidal attack on the 1986 Pau>Superbagneres stage he would have won the 86 tour. He was over 4 minutes up on Lemond who was never going to attack the yellow jersey under those circumstances. Instead he imploded in a pool of sweat, testosterone and bile in his long solo attack. It was stupid of Lemond to think Hinault was capable of such a deal, bit like taking a scorpion on your back and asking him nicely not to sting you.
 
Sigmund Fraud said:
Excuse me but i think this is quite a lot of tosh.

If Hinault had not gone on a suicidal attack on the 1986 Pau>Superbagneres stage he would have won the 86 tour. He was over 4 minutes up on Lemond who was never going to attack the yellow jersey under those circumstances. Instead he imploded in a pool of sweat, testosterone and bile in his long solo attack. It was stupid of Lemond to think Hinault was capable of such a deal, bit like taking a scorpion on your back and asking him nicely not to sting you.
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure where you've got the ideas you have...

Is it "quite a lot of tosh"(sic) because you don't think Hinault betrayed LeMond?

Or tosh, because Hinault demonstrably gave it his very best and clearly wasn't up to it?

LeMonde said he felt betrayed by Hinault's actions, didn't LeMonde rip into Hinault (verbally) when the race got back together?

I think you'll find he did, and that it was widely reported too ;)

You think LeMond lied about his feeling betrayed by Hinault?

Or, are you arguing that my opinion is actually that Hinault was the stronger man, and I'm lying about my own opinion*??? (For what reason a person would do that, I really cannot fathom!)

If that is your reasoning/logic, may I suggest it's very, very broken Siggy...

Have you been on the nose-candy again? :rolleyes:

Who won the tour in '86?

Oh shift!

It was LeMonde! :eek:

Which sort of belies your argument that Hinault was the stronger man (ever-so-slightly ;)) that year, doesn't it?

Did LeMonde have his team mates chase Hinault down?

No!...

They were French, and refused to ride for LeMonde, because he was an English speaker, not French, if the Badger was down the road, they were going to back him -even if the attack was suicidal, because Hinault was French

If you've any doubt French riders would ride against English speaking riders, you're IMO as naive as LeMonde was to trust (the sly and deceitful) Hinault

LeMonde was clearly the stronger rider, he chased (with no support from his French team-mates) Hinault was caught

Saying "If <so-and-so> hadn't blown" would change the result of every race ever ridden

In short...

Hinault demonstrably did betray LeMond, LeMonde did win, that's my premise, now it's for you to refute it (if you can)

TIA
 
La Vie Claire were a mix of French, American, Canadian, Swiss and Danish riders. To polarise the conflict between Hinault and Lemond in the terms of 'they were French and refused to ride for Lemond' is such a simplistic reading of that team's dynamic you might as well have written it in crayons.

Oh btw Lemond asked Bauer (a Canadian!) to chase down Hinault on the stage to St Etienne and he obliged.

Please don't be offended that I haven't replied with the same gusto in terms of judicious use of bold type and emoticons, just that I'm not that prepared to waste my time on you. No offence.
 
Sigmund Fraud said:
La Vie Claire were a mix of French, American, Swiss and Danish riders. To polarise the conflict between Hinault and Lemond in the terms of 'they were French and refused to ride for' is such a simplistic reading of that team's dynamic you might as well have written it in crayons.

Oh btw Lemond asked Bauer (a Canadian!) to chase down Hinault on the stage to St Etienne and he obliged.

Please don't be offended that I haven't replied with the same gusto in terms of judicious use of bold type and emoticons, just that I'm not that prepared to waste my time on you. No offence.
Click to expand...


You are clearly delusional Siggy

Too much charlie?

I don't give a flying f*ck what you think of bold/emoticons/whatever (because it's irrelevant)

So Steve Bauer helped chase Hinault, in what way does that refute my premise?

Are you a complete n00b to cycling?

Or a complete n00b to debate?

I raced from my early teens to my mid 40's on the road (bunch starts and a bit of testing), 'cross, MTB a little track, and a few grass-track races. I only stopped because of injuries/ill health, and was considering posting some of what I'd consider my relevant experience, but on reflection you'd still be the same way, spouting nonsense trying to disprove what I've said with absolutely nothing but a (Steve Bauer based) non-sequitur (that hints at a lack of understanding) and an argument-ad-hominem about my use of forum text tools (that alone surely demonstrates that you are unable to refute my premise)

Run along Siggy, get back under your bridge, Billy-Goat Gruff might be along soon ;)
 
elite3.jpgrevised-schedule.jpg
Revised schedule due to possible bad weather

Things get moving with Junior Men's race at 2:45pm, Womens at 4pm, Under 23 Men's at 5:30pm and the Men's Elite race gets off at 7:30pm

HTH
 
Bluesman said:
Are you a complete n00b to cycling?
Click to expand...

Yes I am. I can't even ride a bike!

Its clear you're a bit dense so let me spell it out for you one final time. Your assertion that 'Hinault demonstrably gave it his very best and clearly wasn't up to it?' is a load of tosh because had it not been for a silly, suicidal solo attack on the Pau to Superbagneres he would have won the 86 tour. Evidence? He was 5'25" up on Lemond at the start of that stage. Was Lemond going to attack him with that lead? No. Hinault self destructed.

He also won both individual times trials - one before both mountains and one after. He was strong all the way. He made an immense tactical blunder in the stage 13 attack and thats what let Lemond in - but it wasn't down to physical weakness or for that matter physical superiority from Lemond. If you haven't already read Slaying the badger by Richard Moore you should..but if you did you clearly didn't understand it.
 
Sigmund Fraud said:
Yes I am. I can't even ride a bike!

Its clear you're a bit dense so let me spell it out for you one final time. Your assertion that 'Hinault demonstrably gave it his very best and clearly wasn't up to it?' is a load of tosh because had it not been for a silly, suicidal solo attack on the Pau to Superbagneres he would have won the 86 tour. Evidence? He was 5'25" up on Lemond at the start of that stage. Was Lemond going to attack him with that lead? No. Hinault self destructed.

He also won both individual times trials - one before both mountains and one after. He was strong all the way. He made an immense tactical blunder in the stage 13 attack and thats what let Lemond in - but it wasn't down to physical weakness or for that matter physical superiority from Lemond. If you haven't already read Slaying the badger by Richard Moore you should..but if you did you clearly didn't understand it.
Click to expand...


So I'm dense?

Hmmm, let's recap...


Hinault demonstrably did betray LeMond, LeMonde did win, that's my premise, now it's for you to refute it (if you can)
Click to expand...

Did Hinault betray LeMonde? Yes (unless you can prove he didn't)

Did LeMonde win? Yes (unless you can prove he didn't)

I said..


Hinault demonstrably gave it his very best and clearly wasn't up to it
Click to expand...


If Hinault was up to the task he'd have won that tour

Did Hinault win? No (unless you can prove he did of course)

Have you refuted what I said? No

And you are name-calling about my being dense :confused:

LOL "Physician heal thyself" seems somewhat appropriate, does it not Siggy?


but it wasn't down to physical weakness or for that matter physical superiority from Lemond
Click to expand...

I don't see where I have posted that LeMonde's total power output was greater than Hinault's was, I've said LeMonde was stronger (as a cyclist (and I contend he was, as he won the tour)), I've said Hinault wasn't up to it (winning (and he clearly wasn't, because he didn't win))

Now you appear to be off chasing tangents and irrelevancies about if LeMonde was stronger (that looks like nothing more than a desperate attempt to give validation to your obvious trolling)...

How could you prove LeMonde physically weaker than Hinault without a time-machine and an ergometer to go back in time to measure both men's power output?

Demonstrably then, it's another of Siggy's complete non-sequiturs

You've clearly resorted to childish name-calling, and trying to draw me into semantics about something you read a book on Siggy, you're looking little more than a condescending/patronising troll who read a book once, and has failed to refute my premise.

I refuse to let you drag me any further into your madness/childish games

So, unless you have something pertinent to contribute (IE you can refute my premise) you are clearly done, and I've better things to do than feed trolls

HTH Understanding ;)
 
Bluesman said:
If Hinault was up to the task he'd have won that tour
Click to expand...

Bluesman said:
LeMonde was clearly the stronger rider
Click to expand...

Bluesman said:
Hinault demonstrably gave it his very best and clearly wasn't up to it?
Click to expand...


Bluesman said:
Hinault was in fact trying to win the tour for himself despite not having the legs to do so
Click to expand...


You see I've never argued if Hinault betrayed Lemond or not, just refuted your assertion - which as you can see you've repeated multiple times above - that Lemond was a stronger rider than Hinault and as you put it Hinault didn't have the legs.

Which was bollocks. Hinault didn't have the brain but he certainly did have the legs. Legs enough to win 2 TTs and keep attacking Lemond until 3 stages from the end. 5'25" up and all he had to do was stick with a nervous, paranoid Lemond...Hinault blew it on stage 13 in his shit or bust attack.

As for the rest of your trolling, your illustrious palmares and mentions of coke snorting, 2/10.
 
I've just finished Kimmage's book, Rough Ride, it's a great read, takes you through trying to make it as a pro cyclist and riding a tour.
 
Andy Schleck withdrew from the Tour Med today. I had him in my fantasy cycling team, what with him costing all of 3 points (the lowest amount in the game atm). Early days yet, but I get the feeling it could be another lost season for him.
 
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