Bi-Fold doors terror

[not-bono-ever]

anyone for any tips for what I should look for ?

looking for fill a space say 3m x 2m high. they will be external, so need to be weather resistant. thinking about aluminium but open on this

I am now in hock for building work and have not thought about these at all - we need to order and supply. tips and experiences appreciated

Thanks

 

[Treacle Toes]

No experience but you should consider looking at ebay as many people sell patio doors and the like in great condition, pre-weathered and at a fraction of the retail price.

 

[Leafster]

I used a company called Kloeber for mine. They're a bit expensive but it's a quality product. Bi Folding French and Patio Doors | Kloeber UK Ltd

Avoid timber as they can be prone to warping and with all the folding mechanisms there's always a risk of gapping between the seals.

Plastic (and timber) need thicker frames so less glass and therefore less light and poorer sightlines. Aluminium should give you the slimmest frames.

If it's a retrofit check for things like render around the "hole" as it may need to be removed and replaced after fitting incurring extra costs.

Again, as the folding mechanisms can be complex you need to be absolutely sure of the measurements - Kloeber sent a surveyor out to check so it was their fault if the measurements were wrong. Incidentally, they fitted a kitchen door for me at the same time and their surveyor cocked up the measurements. Their fitters double-checked the measurements before removing the old door, found the problem and, with no fuss, contacted their head office, arranged for a new one to be made and came out a couple of weeks later to fit it. It would have been quicker but it was over the Christmas holidays.

ETA: You've probably thought of this but consider whether you want the doors to open inwards (meaning you need to keep the space free inside) or outwards. And, which end do you want the "single" door to open.

 

[moonsi til]

We put in some UPVC ones bought from local business & fitted by a builder.

There was a wall & window here before (& a bathroom). We still need to paint outside.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I'm also looking for these now. I want someone to just do all the work, no hassle. Show me the options and take responsibility for the measurements etc. My current uPVC patio doors used to stick in the summer but are now doing it all the time. I've tried adjusting the doors but it just doesn't seem to work. It's really frustrating. I'll just have to keep them shut all the time. They look shit anyway.
I wanted bi folds, so I think I just have to go for it. Might be pricey.
Any recommendations?
We have Albion just down the road in Croydon.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Just got a card from the most local guy who seems pretty decent. It's Mark Hamill! I'm going to have to struggle not to make some terrible dad puns when putting in the windows.

"Take a Luke at this"
"do you have to use much force?"
"The sun rises in the east so this is the dark side in the morning"

Not great I know, but I have a couple of weeks to come up with something better.

 

[Idaho]

I have aluminium frame ones. Three panels, about 2200mm square aperture. I measured, they delivered and I got a local person to fit them. About £3k all told. I'm guessing in London if you want a complete end to end service including removing the existing, then it'll be nearer £5k.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I have aluminium frame ones. Three panels, about 2200mm square aperture. I measured, they delivered and I got a local person to fit them. About £3k all told. I'm guessing in London if you want a complete end to end service including removing the existing, then it'll be nearer £5k.

Fuuuuck!

 

[Idaho]

What were you expecting? You can get much cheaper than £5k. You can even get cheaper than £2k. It depends on the size of the aperture and the quality of the bifolds.

E2a - and the complexity of removal of the old, and the level of finish on the new.

 

[mauvais]

I used a company called Kloeber for mine. They're a bit expensive but it's a quality product. Bi Folding French and Patio Doors | Kloeber UK Ltd

Avoid timber as they can be prone to warping and with all the folding mechanisms there's always a risk of gapping between the seals.

You can solve this with modified wood products like Accoya, which suffers no expansion due to all the water being replaced with something stable, but they are expensive, possibly more so than aluminium.

 

[Sweet FA]

Don't do it.

I had Liniar bifolds put in a few years ago. They look great when they work but they're a pain in the arse when they don't. Ours have been 'toed and heeled' twice and had the locks replaced once. They're the bane of my fucking life.

I'm slightly touchy about this as the lock went again last night.

Also, think about where the sun lands on them. Ours are something like 3mx2m and when the sun is on them (even if it's cold outside), the floor gets stupidly hot wherever the sun lands.

When they work, they're ace and opening up the back of the house in summer is brilliant. There are drawbacks though.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

What were you expecting? You can get much cheaper than £5k. You can even get cheaper than £2k. It depends on the size of the aperture and the quality of the bifolds.

E2a - and the complexity of removal of the old, and the level of finish on the new.

I was expecting 3K all in.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Don't do it.

I had Liniar bifolds put in a few years ago. They look great when they work but they're a pain in the arse when they don't. Ours have been 'toed and heeled' twice and had the locks replaced once. They're the bane of my fucking life.

I'm slightly touchy about this as the lock went again last night.

Also, think about where the sun lands on them. Ours are something like 3mx2m and when the sun is on them (even if it's cold outside), the floor gets stupidly hot wherever the sun lands.

When they work, they're ace and opening up the back of the house in summer is brilliant. There are drawbacks though.

What type did you get? Wood, PVC or aluminum?
The reason I wanted aluminum was because I heard they did not warp so much. My PVC doors are already a pain in the arse, unopenable when the heat is on them (they never used to be like this). I've realigned them but the adjustments won't go any further.

 

[teuchter]

Why do you want bifolds, rather than replacing in much the same arrangement you've got there (maybe making the opening sections full height), but using timber or aluminium, so they are less ugly and don't block out so much light with over-chunky frames.

Timber is better than aluminium thermally.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I love my bifolds so much.

They were pricey but it’s an antire wall, and top spec. Nothing has ever gone wrong with them.

Things I’d do differently:

I’d make absolutely sure that the single exit door has a handle and a lock that is ALSO accessible from the outside. The architect who was doing my whole refurb was an arse, and when I told him to stop spending extra money he threw a tantrum and cut back on some really small but essential things, like exterior access on the single door. So I don’t have a back door.

And I’d put in some kind of glass awning over the bifold. When they’re standing open and it rains (like today) the inside of the glass gets wet and also the floor.

Mine are on the north side, so I don’t have the issue of excessive heat in the sunshine. A friend had this and installed a retractable awning. The shade makes a huge difference to the heat inside the house when the sun hits the window, but because it’s retractable, they get the benefit of the sun inside when they want it in wintertime.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Why do you want bifolds, rather than replacing in much the same arrangement you've got there (maybe making the opening sections full eight), but using timber or aluminium, so they are less ugly and don't block out so much light with over-chunky frames.

Timber is better than aluminium thermally.

I don't know what full eight means.
I would rather have bifolds so the open out the whole window area and fold over the the right (in this new picture) and don't get in the way of the patio.

 

[Idaho]

So that aperture is about W2000mm x H2200mm?

And you want how many folds? Any top lights? (the little windows at the top)

 

[teuchter]

I don't know what full eight means.
I would rather have bifolds so the open out the whole window area and fold over the the right (in this new picture) and don't get in the way of the patio.

View attachment 163256

That should have said 'full height'.

Have you considered a three- or four- panel sliding window?

One fixed panel at the right-hand end, the other 2 (or 3) slide on top of it.

Sliders allow you to have much slimmer frames than bifolds meaning more light in the room when they are closed.

If the opening is not much more than 2m wide you can probably do it with a two panel bifold, which could make sense. If it turns out to need a 3 panel bifold then I'd be considering the sliding options.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

So that aperture is about W2000mm x H2200mm?

And you want how many folds? Any top lights? (the little windows at the top)

About W2530mm X H2280mm
Three or four folds. Not sure about top lights, I just assumed there wouldn't be any, but the ones I have now have been useful in the summer, and for leaving open so workmen can have power (cables through) when I am out.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

That should have said 'full height'.

Have you considered a three- or four- panel sliding window?

One fixed panel at the right-hand end, the other 2 (or 3) slide on top of it.

Sliders allow you to have much slimmer frames than bifolds meaning more light in the room when they are closed.

If the opening is not much more than 2m wide you can probably do it with a two panel bifold, which could make sense. If it turns out to need a 3 panel bifold then I'd be considering the sliding options.

It's 2530mm so a two panel bi fold would be too big and clunky.
I never heard of sliders. I'll have to have a look into them.

 

[teuchter]

It's 2530mm so a two panel bi fold would be too big and clunky.
I never heard of sliders. I'll have to have a look into them.

This kind of thing.

 

[Leafster]

I was expecting 3K all in.

Mine were 2295mm x 2098mm in thermally broken aluminium with triple-glazing and they cost around £4.5k with fitting.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

This kind of thing.
View attachment 163265 View attachment 163266

So you only get half of the door space open?

 

[teuchter]

So you only get half of the door space open?

If you go for two panel yes.
If you go for 3 panel you get 2/3 open.
If you go for 4 panel you get 3/4 open.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

And I’d put in some kind of glass awning over the bifold. When they’re standing open and it rains (like today) the inside of the glass gets wet and also the floor.

Do you mean open while it is raining?
Isn't that like leaving any door open in the rain? Or have I got something wrong?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

If you go for two panel yes.
If you go for 3 panel you get 2/3 open.
If you go for 4 panel you get 3/4 open.

Four sounds good. Is that cheaper than bi folds?

 

[teuchter]

A thing for anyone who cares about heat loss:

Ask the window supplier for the Uw value for your specific window. Ask to see the calculation, and see if it seems to apply to a window with your dimensions. Some will try to give you a generic U value, which may bear little resemblance to the real world U value of what you are buying, because the proportion of frame to glass is significant, especially if you are looking at, say, triple glazing with aluminium frames. The performance of the glass may be pretty good, but the frames will not be (even if they are 'thermally broken'). If you have a lot of framing, and if that framing is quite chunky, then loads of heat is going to be lost through it, in some cases almost negating the effect of high spec glazing.

Many suppliers won't give you a clear answer. Without a Uw value calculation you can't compare what they are offering you with anything else.

 

[teuchter]

Four sounds good. Is that cheaper than bi folds?

There are so many different types of bifolds and of sliders that there's not a clear answer. Depends what you compare with what. But for a similar price level I'd say you'll get a more elegant window (slimmer framing) that will let more light in and be less likely to malfunction.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Do you mean open while it is raining?
Isn't that like leaving any door open in the rain? Or have I got something wrong?

Yeah, open when it’s raining. Like any door but because it’s glass you get watermarks, and any grub in the rain leaves a residue. If I had an awning, when the door is open it would be covered so not get wet in the rain.

ETA When the door is stood open, the inside of the door catches the rain.

 

[teuchter]

Yeah, open when it’s raining. Like any door but because it’s glass you get watermarks, and any grub in the rain leaves a residue. If I had an awning, when the door is open it would be covered so not get wet in the rain.

ETA When the door is stood open, the inside of the door catches the rain.

This would apply to outward opening, normal glazed patio doors too though.

You can also get inward-opening bifolds. But then you run into complications with curtains and things.