Best way to challenge this PCN please

[SheilaNaGig]

Hello Urban, another request for help please.

So I was driving in the Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham, and I took a side road to bypass a junction (so yeah, a rat run).

And now I've been issued with a PCN for a 52M traffic contravention. Having looked online, this seems to be a local scheme to stop people rat running through local side streets. Also, it's unclear if this restriction is 24 hr 7 days a week, or only during certain times, or what.

But I didn't see any signage, any bollards, any barriers, I saw nothing at all to indicate that I was crossing into restricted territory. It may be that such suganage was there but I genuinely didn't see any (I would have turned back).

I made the same rat run a week later, again without seeing any signage or other indication of restricted access. This is in a Sunday afternoon.

Assuming Im going to get a PCN for the subsequent contravention as well, what do you reckon is the best way to couch my representation to have this waived?

Do I threaten their first born and curse them unto the seventh generation, or should I throw myself on their mercy and plead for clemency?

Ta
x

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Here's their page about this stuff

South Fulham Clean Air Neighbourhood project

Reducing traffic, congestion and pollution in South Fulham streets.

www.lbhf.gov.uk

 

[SheilaNaGig]

This pepipoo forum thread seems to suggest that F&H are chancing their arm.

IPS Driver Error

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I think I need to go back and take photos of the lack of signage...

What a fucking bore.

 

[platinumsage]

Can you post a google streetview link?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Can you post a google streetview link?

unless the streetview is very recent, then probably not a lot of help

a lot of this stuff has been done very rapidly and not very well, and has been changed a few times so even a photograph taken today may not be an accurate picture of what was there at the time...

 

[platinumsage]

unless the streetview is very recent, then probably not a lot of help

a lot of this stuff has been done very rapidly and not very well, and has been changed a few times so even a photograph taken today may not be an accurate picture of what was there at the time...

It would be very useful because we could look up the Traffic Regulation Order.

Going to check the signs would be a final step to check they are sufficient to enforce the Order.

 

[Spymaster]

Hello Urban, another request for help please.

So I was driving in the Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham, and I took a side road to bypass a junction (so yeah, a rat run).

And now I've been issued with a PCN for a 52M traffic contravention. Having looked online, this seems to be a local scheme to stop people rat running through local side streets. Also, it's unclear if this restriction is 24 hr 7 days a week, or only during certain times, or what.

But I didn't see any signage, any bollards, any barriers, I saw nothing at all to indicate that I was crossing into restricted territory. It may be that such suganage was there but I genuinely didn't see any (I would have turned back).

I made the same rat run a week later, again without seeing any signage or other indication of restricted access. This is in a Sunday afternoon.

Assuming Im going to get a PCN for the subsequent contravention as well, what do you reckon is the best way to couch my representation to have this waived?

Do I threaten their first born and curse them unto the seventh generation, or should I throw myself on their mercy and plead for clemency?

Ta
x

On the back of the PCN should be instructions to appeal and a number of "grounds for appeal". What are they?

It's highly unlikely that there is no signage telling you not to do what you did. More likely is that you missed it. If that's the case you need to go back and find out why you missed it and then appeal on the basis that the signage was either shit, or non-existent.

 

[Saul Goodman]

On the back of the PCN should be instructions to appeal and a number of "grounds for appeal". What are they?

It's highly unlikely that there is no signage telling you not to do what you did. More likely is that you missed it. If that's the case you need to go back and find out why you missed it and then appeal on the basis that the signage was either shit, or non-existent.

Or take the appropriate tools with you and remove the signs.

 

[Pickman's model]

Or take the appropriate tools with you and remove the signs.

yeh get someone to stand about with a clipboard and steady the ladder SheilaNaGig while you take the signs down

 

[Puddy_Tat]

yeh get someone to stand about with a clipboard and steady the ladder @SheilaNaGig while you take the signs down

and wear high-vis when you're doing it and nobody will challenge you

 

[SheilaNaGig]

yeh get someone to stand about with a clipboard and steady the ladder SheilaNaGig while you take the signs down

We'll do it dressed as a pantomime horse and a court jester, with Anonymous masks on, to confound the CCTV.

we could put on a little show for the watcher

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Can you post a google streetview link?

unless the streetview is very recent, then probably not a lot of help

a lot of this stuff has been done very rapidly and not very well, and has been changed a few times so even a photograph taken today may not be an accurate picture of what was there at the time...

I've just had a look. The leaves were on the trees and it was a lovely sunny day. So not recent...

I think this regulation was introduced in September 2020

 

[Saul Goodman]

A can of spray paint would be easier.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

It would be very useful because we could look up the Traffic Regulation Order.

Going to check the signs would be a final step to check they are sufficient to enforce the Order.

It says

Hazlebury Rd, NWbnd of Cranberry Rd


No idea what NWbnd means.
Oh, it's North West boundary isn't it.


ETA
In SW6


ETA
London

 

[platinumsage]

It says

Hazlebury Rd, NWbnd of Cranberry Rd


No idea what NWbnd means.
Oh, it's North West boundary isn't it.


ETA
In SW6


ETA
London

There should have been a "no motor vehicles" sign at the position indicated on the map:

South Fulham Clean Air Neighbourhood project

Reducing traffic, congestion and pollution in South Fulham streets.

www.lbhf.gov.uk

 

[SheilaNaGig]

It would be very useful because we could look up the Traffic Regulation Order.

Going to check the signs would be a final step to check they are sufficient to enforce the Order.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Arrows to show my travel at the junction, which is circled.

Obvs.

 

[platinumsage]

Arrows to show my travel at the junction, which is circled.

Obvs.

Seems they're using signs like this:

 

[Saul Goodman]

No idea what NWbnd means.
Oh, it's North West bound isn't it.

CFY
It's the direction you were travelling.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Seems they're using signs like this:

View attachment 244778

I didn’t see them. We have similar going up all round Brixton for the local neighbourhood restrictions, and I certainly notice these even in the dark. If they wer there, I didn’t see them.

I’ll have to go back and walk around I think.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Either way, it’s not good.

Signs aren’t there and the council are harvesting fines (although good for if it means I can appeal).

Signs are there and I didn’t notice.... which means I’m a fuckwit.

 

[Teaboy]

Local restrictions like this do seem to be appearing in a lot of London now. You have to be really careful because sat nav etc never pick them up.

 

[T & P]

Local restrictions like this do seem to be appearing in a lot of London now. You have to be really careful because sat nav etc never pick them up.

Most people in the world think 2020 has been the worst year ever. With the exception of London traffic NIMBYs, who couldn't be happier.