Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Myspace is shit, so that was hard to usurp.
100,000+ applications are there for all to see and in that are some pretty damn good ones to boot.
I've been playing GTA:China Town Wars on my iPhone what have you been playing?
Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
Myspace is shit, so that was hard to usurp.
100,000+ applications are there for all to see and in that are some pretty damn good ones to boot.
I've been playing GTA:China Town Wars on my iPhone what have you been playing?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It's an advantage if you can make use of that advantage in some way. It's not an advantage in itself, at all. It has to be part of a strategy.
grit
an ugly force for good
So because it has 100k apps it has to be good? logic fail. I was a happy iPhone 3g user for 2 years but have to admit downloaded fuck all applications. Mainly becuase looking at the app store it seemed that half the stuff was fluff crap such as fart sound apps and making the phone look like a pint etc.
I dont have any interest in playing games on a portable device, I play a few hours of TF2 a week on my desktop and thats all the time I want to spend with games.
grit
an ugly force for good
Yeah thats what I meant sorry if it wasnt clear.
editor
hiraethified
Give it a few months and most of the big hitting games and apps will be available on multiple plartforms - not least the Palm webOS, seeing as it apparently only takes a "couple of days" to port over even quite complicated games.
The 100k figure may be impressive, but in reality you're looking at vast amounts of duplicate apps offering near-identical functionality, heaps of unrated and quite probably pointless games, and a loads of of fluff barely worth the effort of a download, completely dwarfing the genuinely useful apps (and boy, I've looked!).
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It was when looking at a ski app on a workmate's phone that I noticed the difference. That's why I chose a piste map as an example.
It's just an observation.
And, if you look at nearly all of the phones currently being pitched in the same price bracket as the iphone, it's noticeable that on nearly all of them the screen resolution is quite a lot higher.
Again, just an observation.
It presents a particular issue for apple, perhaps, because one of their strengths has been to focus on gradual upgrade of software etc, whilst keeping the basic hardware like the screen the same, so that apps and whatnot don't have to be rewritten for new devices (which makes a lot of sense).
magneze
🎧
OSX only runs on Apple hardware, which falls outside my definition of open.
grit
an ugly force for good
The unthinkable has happened Editor, I'm agreeing with you
Seriously though, I think its possible that the mobile OS wars will emulate their desktop equivalents a bit considering they are essentially an extension of them. In the personal computer market apple's tech is certainly not the most powerful, it does however provide an extremely slick interface to the user. Thats what a section of the market wants, great, fair play to them.
On the other hand for people who are willing to do a bit more work they go with Windows and Linux. Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. We all want different things from our consumer electronics and the market adjusts to address those different needs. For me as a hardcore nerd, I want the control and power the Android platform offers. I'm prepared to trade other parts of the user experience to get that.
Right now the iPhone hardware looks dated compared to other devices.
editor
hiraethified
The OS looks dated too when it's compared to the Palm's.
magneze
🎧
Yes, true. But you get far more developers onside eventually when they realise that they can write once and run in many places. But, you do have to build that relationship - simply being open isn't enough.
grit
an ugly force for good
Its trivial enough to provide developers with what we need. I was writing a Android application after about an hour reading http://developer.android.com/index.html
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I can - and have - written Qt desktop applications before, very simply, much easier than writing Mac or Windows apps. They made no difference to anything.
grit
an ugly force for good
Maybe HTML5 will kill off iPhone apps and Android apps!
Thats what a lot of people are thinking, I used to share the same view now I'm not so sure. The technology that powers web sites is a fucking horrible hack job and the industry reflects that.
Personally I see it as the mobile market will settle with lets say about 3 major platform that covers all the phones out there. The very few it doesn't, you don't want them as customers anyway they are not your target. Targeting 3 platforms is fine a lot of software developers are used to it. Its standard in a lot of enterprise applications (thanks to Java) that applications can be run on Windows or Linux.
grit
an ugly force for good
I dont understand what you are trying to illustrate.?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Im a big fan of html5 as well as having fairly high expectations for what will be achieved with it in the years to come. However it wont match native apps in certain areas and I dont see the number of platforms being developed for declining by epic proportions, although the game will eventually change in ways Im not entirely sure of right now.
Ive said before that I expect flash to be harmed by HTML5, CSS3 and webGL, to quite a large extent on the web in general, but there are still plenty of problems that Adobe can position flash to solve, and plenty of flash developers so its not going to suddenly vanish.
Im certainly looking forward to seeing how good webapps can get in the next few years, especially with multitouch. If things like the ipad take off and multitouch is exposed to webapps via javascript nicely in some sort of way that is at least similar across devices, then its certainly possible that webapps could get a boost by being a nice way to harness multitouch across platforms, but there will no doubt be some devil in the detail and who knows how good the alternatives may get at harnessing multitouch. Apple patent battles may thwart some of the possibilities, I cant tell yet.
Ive said before that I expect flash to be harmed by HTML5, CSS3 and webGL, to quite a large extent on the web in general, but there are still plenty of problems that Adobe can position flash to solve, and plenty of flash developers so its not going to suddenly vanish.
Im certainly looking forward to seeing how good webapps can get in the next few years, especially with multitouch. If things like the ipad take off and multitouch is exposed to webapps via javascript nicely in some sort of way that is at least similar across devices, then its certainly possible that webapps could get a boost by being a nice way to harness multitouch across platforms, but there will no doubt be some devil in the detail and who knows how good the alternatives may get at harnessing multitouch. Apple patent battles may thwart some of the possibilities, I cant tell yet.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Thats a meaningless definition, it runs on quite a few platforms if you want it to, including VMWare.
Many linux variants don't run on a shit load of modern hardware because they don't have the drivers. Using your logic, does that make then closed?
grit
an ugly force for good
No the difference is that the EULA requires OSX to be run on Apple branded hardware, thats what makes it closed (along with no source).
magneze
🎧
That's a bit of a bizarre assertion. I can't take an OSX ISO and install it on just anything - I would have massively hack about with it. With Linux, and even to some extent Windows I can just install and run, even on a Mac ... and of course the license that grit mentions.
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
Shame the Pre comes across as a beta device, not a working phone. The two we tested at work - one the slider stopped working, the other the keypad broke. After a month. Palm repaired them and then the touch screen broke.
Needless to say we're all still using BlackBerry's as work phones.
Anyhow as a BB and iPhone user i'd say while the BB has a far superior email capabilities (surprise!) the iPhone's messaging is much better and the web browser hugely better. The BB is utter crap for web surfing which a lot of business and consumer users want.
I'm also a fan of a physical QWERTY but TBH the touch only offered by the iPhone is no big deal.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
never mind
editor
hiraethified
What? How much worse can it get for a developer than having the only point of sale for their app being arbitrarily pulled after they'd given $99 to Apple and gone through the approval process, as required?
For some, that's their sole source of income removed at Apple's whim, often without explanation or recourse.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Cerrtainly I dont think you will get many developers who are happy about that. the iphone platform creates new opportunities and new risks, so its a mixed bag that will end up worth it for some developers and not others.
I think the extent to which Apple offers 'no explanation' to affected developers is often exagurated, there is no doubt they've sometimes handled the pulling or non-approval of apps in a bad way that made things worse, but an explanation is often forthcoming in the end, and Apple have responded to some of the flaws in the way they've done this stuff in the past. There are still some ambiguities and clearly its very bad when they change their minds about something with no notice, so Im not going to go too far in my defence of Apple, but sometimes the developers are not faultless.
I think the extent to which Apple offers 'no explanation' to affected developers is often exagurated, there is no doubt they've sometimes handled the pulling or non-approval of apps in a bad way that made things worse, but an explanation is often forthcoming in the end, and Apple have responded to some of the flaws in the way they've done this stuff in the past. There are still some ambiguities and clearly its very bad when they change their minds about something with no notice, so Im not going to go too far in my defence of Apple, but sometimes the developers are not faultless.
editor
hiraethified
Here's how it works out: Apps with tits and bums suddenly became very offensive and had to be instantly pulled off the AppStore, but tits and bums apps from their corporate pals like Playboy are just fine and can stay as long as they like!
http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-adult-app-censorship-apples-unconvincing-explanation/
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
What? How much worse can it get for a developer than having the only point of sale for their app being arbitrarily pulled after they'd given $99 to Apple and gone through the approval process, as required?
For some, that's their sole source of income removed at Apple's whim, often without explanation or recourse.
You totally ignore my point on piracy and are agreeing with me then?
You are saying its bad for developers? But if it was really bad why are there so many applications for the iPhone? Surely if it was such a nightmare there wouldn't be so many and people would be saying 'don't go there', actually its only the developers that have an axe to grind that have a problem.
The moral standpoint is a product of the location of Apple. Its cultural to the US and its very weird, but that's the way they are. I can always buy another phone or Jail Break the one I have.
editor
hiraethified
I'm sure it's great for developers creating nice, family safe, non-political apps, but if you think a Disney-fied walled garden is the best way forward, then I'm afraid I'm not going to agree with you.
As for piracy, I can't say I've heard of Palm''s far more open app distribution model wreaking havoc with developers, or Android developers suffering terribly, so what's so good about Apple's control-freakery?
grit
an ugly force for good
Your confusing correlation with causation.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yes thats one of the most compelling examples of Apples app store control being handled in a pretty ugly way. I said at the time that it was more about Apples desire to control the image of their app store than anything else, as well as the sheer volume of smutty apps that they had previous approved even when said apps were lurking in inappropriate categories on the store.
There are one or two possible end user benefits from Apple controlling the store but also plenty of severe downsides which have been discussed here a lot. I would be happier if there were alternative means of app distribution for users that didnt want to be nannied, and could be used without having to jailbreak the whole os, but clearly thats not on the horizon for the foreseeable.
WWWeed
Bandwidth Bandit
those guys at Electronic Frontier Foundation have got a copy of apples developer agreement: http://www.eff.org/files/20100302_iphone_dev_agr.pdf
So you guys can now make decisions based on fact not opinion.
For example:
Then there's the fact that a developer cannot "disable, hack, or otherwise interfere with" not just the iPhone OS and SDK, but also "any services or other Apple software or technology" - which precludes, as the EFF points out, efforts to enable Apple devices to interoperate with open source software.
But wait, there's more. In the Agreement's "Limitation of Liability" section, Apple states that it can never be held liable for damages - other than those involving personal injury - that "exceed the amount of fifty dollars". In other words, if the App Store police decide to axe your app for any reason, all damages resulting from your loss of development, marketing, and other expenses can't amount to more than what the EFF calls "the cost of a nice dinner for one in Cupertino".
It's no news that the iPhone, the iPod touch, and the forthcoming iPad are closed systems. Reading the Agreement reveals just how closed those systems are, and just how committed how Apple is to reversing decades of developers' abilities to publish and market applications as they see fit - not to mention the user's right to load whatever software they want onto devices they have purchased.
So you guys can now make decisions based on fact not opinion.
For example:
Then there's the fact that a developer cannot "disable, hack, or otherwise interfere with" not just the iPhone OS and SDK, but also "any services or other Apple software or technology" - which precludes, as the EFF points out, efforts to enable Apple devices to interoperate with open source software.
But wait, there's more. In the Agreement's "Limitation of Liability" section, Apple states that it can never be held liable for damages - other than those involving personal injury - that "exceed the amount of fifty dollars". In other words, if the App Store police decide to axe your app for any reason, all damages resulting from your loss of development, marketing, and other expenses can't amount to more than what the EFF calls "the cost of a nice dinner for one in Cupertino".
It's no news that the iPhone, the iPod touch, and the forthcoming iPad are closed systems. Reading the Agreement reveals just how closed those systems are, and just how committed how Apple is to reversing decades of developers' abilities to publish and market applications as they see fit - not to mention the user's right to load whatever software they want onto devices they have purchased.
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