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Anelka's quenelle

Edie said:
The God-botherers have taken over :cool:
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;) just as long as you get that I wasn't having a go at you m8. There's reasons I dislike this stuff, but anyway :) for my funeral I want a long grim and emotional affair with lots of themes about death as well, but then I want everyone to sing 'Ghosts of Cable street' before leaving, to lighten the mood a bit.
 
DotCommunist said:
buraq.
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Yeah, but if I said that a lot of people would prob think I was talking about one of these:

Burqa_1428680c.jpg
 
Buckaroo said:
What? the catholic mass isn't what makes catholicism shit these days its noncery and covering up noncery and institutional corruption and the rest.
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I'm not really trying to defend catholocism but noncery's by no means unique to the catholic church. Nor is covering it up.

All this catholicism=noncery mildly irritates me. It's just lazy stereotyping AFAIC.
 
No seriously I want someone who knew me and can talk about my life, not just someone who's been hired for the purposes of conducting the funeral. I also want people to tell funny stories about stuff I did as well.
 
Frances Lengel said:
I'm not really trying to defend catholocism but noncery's by no means unique to the catholic church. Nor is covering it up.

All this catholicism=noncery mildly irritates me. It's just lazy stereotyping AFAIC.
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its quite literally a broad church with many currents. Aiding ratlines for nazis is some evil shit but its not fair to lay that on your everyday catholic is it.
 
FNG said:
To be honest its kind of dull to argue with someone who constantly shift the goal posts in order to "win" an arguement on the internet,though this is a corker


phil in the face of overwhelming evidence conceedes that Dieduenne is an apologist for holocaust denying nazi shitcunts shifts the goal post to some existential arse navel gazing about the nature of labelling things "right wing". And having already conceeded Dieduenne less than half a day prior to be an anti semite posts the first sentence in support of the second
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It's because he's an idiot.
 
Buckaroo said:
What? the catholic mass isn't what makes catholicism shit these days its noncery and covering up noncery and institutional corruption and the rest.
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uch the social and institutional aspects of the church have always been shit. but the aesthetics used to be spot on - now they are shit too.
 
Frances Lengel said:
I'm not really trying to defend catholocism but noncery's by no means unique to the catholic church. Nor is covering it up.

All this catholicism=noncery mildly irritates me. It's just lazy stereotyping AFAIC.
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Agreed, loads of other religions like the church of england and dodgy sects of orthodox Jews in London and NYC have become involved in nonce scandals of their own. It is by no means unique to Catholicism.
 
Frances Lengel said:
I'm not really trying to defend catholocism but noncery's by no means unique to the catholic church. Nor is covering it up.

All this catholicism=noncery mildly irritates me. It's just lazy stereotyping AFAIC.
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Oh yeah I get that, went to a catholic school run by priests and you know what, they were all decent blokes, no noncery at all, maybe I wasn't good looking enough! Good people and smart, good politics, liberation theology and stuff and taught us not to give a fuck about the superficial bullshit. I was just making a point about the mass. The catholic mass is theatre and while there are many problems with Catholicism, the mass isn't really one of them...unless you bring in God etc and the fact that it's a bit scary, snuff style, crucifixion, death and hell obsessed.:)
 
frogwoman said:
I also think Trotskyism is a lot like a religion, got no problem admitting I joined the SP partly because of the need to believe in stuff.
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I find it hard to distinguish between political idealism (meaning in the colloquial sense of the word - not the philosophical) and religious idealism. A future ordering of society and heaven dont sound that much different from me.

Also within religious studies definitions of religions (such as Ninian Smart's 7 dimensional definition), its very hard to differentiate between political idealisim and religiousity. Usually when presented with that kinda thing, people think it reduces political ideologies to religious ones, but i think it generates the opposite implications. Like for instance, does it matter that liberation theology peeps have the same idea of communism in practice but have a different philosophical framework underpinning it? To me the answer would be no, and i think it opens up space for people to not quibble about theologies, philosophies and just focus on the universalism (that is the general material things we all need) underpinning progressive strands within all these frameworks...
 
I also really agree with what elbows was saying earlier about beliefs like antisemitism providing simplistic and comforting explanations for things, even when they are bollocks and end up seriously hurting someone, like to have that faith that you're right can be good because it can give you comfort and a reason to get out of bed etc but it can also end up seriously hurting people.
 
Buckaroo said:
Oh yeah I get that, went to a catholic school run by priests and you know what, they were all decent blokes, no noncery at all, maybe I wasn't good looking enough! Good people and smart, good politics, liberation theology and stuff and taught us not to give a fuck about the superficial bullshit. I was just making a point about the mass. The catholic mass is theatre and while there are many problems with Catholicism, the mass isn't really one of them...unless you bring in God etc and the fact that it's a bit scary, snuff style, crucifixion, death and hell obsessed.:)
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No worries mate :) But I actually like that bit I've highlighted. I like the scariness of it. Even though I never believed a word of it. Purgatory? Yeah,is that right George. Stations of the cross to get time off purgatory? Come on. Limbo for the unbaptised? You've got to be messin. AFAIC a catholic education teaches you at a very early age that a lot of what you get told is bullshit. Which isn't a bad thing.
 
Buckaroo said:
Oh yeah I get that, went to a catholic school run by priests and you know what, they were all decent blokes, no noncery at all, maybe I wasn't good looking enough! Good people and smart, good politics, liberation theology and stuff and taught us not to give a fuck about the superficial bullshit. I was just making a point about the mass. The catholic mass is theatre and while there are many problems with Catholicism, the mass isn't really one of them...unless you bring in God etc and the fact that it's a bit scary, snuff style, crucifixion, death and hell obsessed.:)
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i wasn't really making a serious point. but i mean, accoustic guitars - usually badly tuned, playing 3 chord tricks in praise of jesus, isnt really that far away from hell is it??
 
cesare said:
That's not just catholicism though
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of course not- its simply what I noticed most when attending catholic services after an austere ish baptist upbringing. The other one that got me was the question-response from priest to audience. And also with you etc.

closest to that level of ritualism in baptist I ever saw was recitation of the serenity prayer. You know 'god grant me' etc.
 
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