Anelka's quenelle

[xslavearcx]

Yes, but they posit an alternative "seal," right?

But I don't think there can ever be a seal.

It's awkward, as my wife and son are Muslim, but it seems like an insuperable obstacle to me.

i guess the way round it is, that muhammad was the last "law bringing prophet" in the guise of Moses, although muhammad was a universal prophet sent to all people rather than to a particular tribe. If you go by that logic, then it is perfectly possible for people to be inspired by God, but that it is interpreted within the overarching islamic framework. Obviously, if said prophet decides to say, muhammads shariah period is been and gone, and heres a new law, then thats difficult to reconcile with the seal of prophets thang of islam.

Did your wife and son convert then?

eta - maybe some sufi variety is the way forward for ya?

 

[xslavearcx]

Why Islam not Christianity xslavearcx ? Do you come from a Muslim family? (just out of interest).

Im fascinated by Jesus myself.

came from a catholic background and the rather firey tone of the Qur'an suited 18/19 year old me

 

[Buckaroo]

It's not all nonsense and belief is more than just stuff people say!

 

[phildwyer]

i guess the way round it is, that muhammad was the last "law bringing prophet" in the guise of Moses, although muhammad was a universal prophet sent to all people rather than to a particular tribe. If you go by that logic, then it is perfectly possible for people to be inspired by God, but that it is interpreted within the overarching islamic framework. Obviously, if said prophet decides to say, muhammads shariah period is been and gone, and heres a new law, then thats difficult to reconcile with the seal of prophets thang of islam.

It's just that I think all truth is historical, so that to announce one message as true for all time is contradictory.

Did your wife and son convert then?

No, they're secular Turks.

eta - maybe some sufi variety is the way forward for ya?

Maybe so. I must say I fancy a bit of this:

 

[Edie]

There's an edit button there, Edith. BTW - have you disallowed all PMs or just me?

Oh I've turned them off cos I kept getting PMs from pests, sorry.

frogwoman I can't see how those posts on that other thread are being scathing towards Judaism at all As far as I can see all I was saying is that only God can ultimately judge. Only God knows our hearts, our motivations, sees all of us, and can forgive. I'll be honest and say I've little idea what Jewish people believe on the matter on the matter of sin, forgiveness and redemption. But that issue is probably THE biggest draw of Christianity for me. The idea that we all fuck things up, we all sin, it's the human fucking condition. And the possibility of forgiveness that Jesus brought, the IDEA of new starts, new chances... that's got to be the most relieving idea of all eh?

Jesus death, his love then his death, is our freedom from our past, our struggles, our wrongs.

 

[TruXta]

Oh I've turned them off cos I kept getting PMs from pests, sorry.

frogwoman I can't see how those posts on that other thread are being scathing towards Judaism at all As far as I can see all I was saying is that only God can ultimately judge. Only God knows our hearts, our motivations, sees all of us, and can forgive. I'll be honest and say I've little idea what Jewish people believe on the matter on the matter of sin, forgiveness and redemption. But that issue is probably THE biggest draw of Christianity for me. The idea that we all fuck things up, we all sin, it's the human fucking condition. And the possibility of forgiveness that Jesus brought, the IDEA of new starts, new chances... that's got to be the most relieving idea of all eh?

Jesus death, his love then his death, is our freedom from our past, our struggles, our wrongs.

Thought as much (re your PM settings), no worries.

 

[frogwoman]

Oh I've turned them off cos I kept getting PMs from pests, sorry.

frogwoman I can't see how those posts on that other thread are being scathing towards Judaism at all As far as I can see all I was saying is that only God can ultimately judge. Only God knows our hearts, our motivations, sees all of us, and can forgive. I'll be honest and say I've little idea what Jewish people believe on the matter on the matter of sin, forgiveness and redemption. But that issue is probably THE biggest draw of Christianity for me. The idea that we all fuck things up, we all sin, it's the human fucking condition. And the possibility of forgiveness that Jesus brought, the IDEA of new starts, new chances... that's got to be the most relieving idea of all eh?

Jesus death, his love then his death, is our freedom from our past, our struggles, our wrongs.

I know you weren't trying to be. I wasn't trying to be scathing about Christianity, I was just saying what I found wrong with it. And you're right, we all fuck up etc. When I was saying that stuff, I wasn't having a go at you but I also don't think that we should hold off from having a go at certain ideas on the basis that they are part of someone's religion when believing those ideas literally and acting on what it says has justified so much hate and violence, like you might think its nobody's business whether someone believes all non Christians are going to hell or not but it could affect how they treat others and if they start getting some sort of power then they have the potential to seriously cause some real damage, whether that's by disowning people that are gay or that fall in love with someone from another religion, or by getting political power and using that to seriously hurt people.

I don't think you were being scathing in fact I don't think there's that much wrong with what you said although I disagree with it obviously, but it seems to me you were tryingto say your religion shouldn't be criticized because someone's beliefs are their business despite having attacked other religious views about stuff in the past.

And I do find the idea that forgiveness etc wasn't possible before Jesus a bit problematic tbh, it kind of ends up implying certain things about other religions today.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Look at it this way.

When you see, as one often does, the fans of Cardiff City brawling with the fans of Swansea City, do you conclude that these groups of young men must have completely divergent interests and utterly irreconcilable differences?

Or do you rather conclude that their brawling indicates a shared mentality, similar tastes and virtually indistinguishable interests?

That's how I see Commies v. Fash.

That would be because you're an idiot.

 

[phildwyer]

That would be because you're an idiot.

What you don't understand is that you lose the argument like that.

In front of everyone, and for all to see, you declare ideological bankruptcy.

 

[xslavearcx]

so can we rename this thread the religious conversion/confession thread

 

[DotCommunist]

And I do find the idea that forgiveness etc wasn't possible before Jesus a bit problematic tbh, it kind of ends up implying certain things about other religions today.

if you extend it logically all the OT prophets and heroes would be stuck in hell untill jesus came along anyway odd.

 

[frogwoman]

But yeah don't worry, I don't think you were trying to attack me I was just saying that you pointed out what you don't like and I have the right to do the same

 

[Edie]

so can we rename this thread the religious conversion/confession thread

The God-botherers have taken over

 

[xslavearcx]

It's just that I think all truth is historical, so that to announce one message as true for all time is contradictory.



No, they're secular Turks.



Maybe so. I must say I fancy a bit of this:

ahh that sounds an ok scenario you got there. for a minute i was thinking you were married to a religious zealot there, but that is probably just me projecting my marraige scenario when i was a convert conversations like "eastenders or corination street" me " have a read of this verse of the Qur'an then you'll see what its all about" etc...

 

[frogwoman]

if you extend it logically all the OT prophets and heroes would be stuck in hell untill jesus came along anyway odd.

That's pretty much what catholics used to believe about limbo isn't it?

 

[xslavearcx]

That's pretty much what catholics used to believe about limbo isn't it?

everything is shit about catholicism these days. check this out..

 

[phildwyer]

That's pretty much what catholics used to believe about limbo isn't it?

The Harrowing of Hell.

Also explains what He was up to during the three days of apparent death.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

What you don't understand is that you lose the argument like that.

In front of everyone, and for all to see, you declare ideological bankruptcy.

By calling you an idiot all that he declared was the bleeding obvious.

 

[DotCommunist]

That's pretty much what catholics used to believe about limbo isn't it?

I think so yes- not in hell but not in heaven. ?chilling with the unshriven and babies who died before baptism

 

[killer b]

Also explains what He was up to during the three days of apparent death.

nah, he was having a mini-break in the cotswalds.

 

[phildwyer]

By calling you an idiot all that he declared was the bleeding obvious.

And another one bites the dust.

 

[phildwyer]

 

[frogwoman]

everything is shit about catholicism these days. check this out..

everything is shit about catholicism these days. check this out..

Fantastic

 

[8ball]

Why Islam not Christianity xslavearcx ? Do you come from a Muslim family? (just out of interest).

Im fascinated by Jesus myself.

Jesus never had a flying horse-donkey-mule-thing.

 

[xslavearcx]

For my funeral, i want a latin mass, and i want it to have the longest most dreary homily ever, with themes of suffering and death. some fire and brimstone would be lovely too - what there needs to be constructed is a fire and brimstone religion that is not politically dodge. id be signing up for some of that...

 

[TruXta]

Jesus never had a flying horse-donkey-mule-thing.

Well, Muhammad never had a merkabah, so neerrrr.

 

[xslavearcx]

Fantastic

the bit when you hear the priest having a munch of The Host is sooo impious!

It all went downhill when they started bringing people with accoustic guitars into relgious cerimonies

 

[8ball]

Well, Muhammad never had a merkabah, so neerrrr.

Anyone can have one of those if they have too much sun and wine.

 

[DotCommunist]

Jesus never had a flying horse-donkey-mule-thing.

buraq.


we have Pegasii as well tho.

 

[FNG]

By calling you an idiot all that he declared was the bleeding obvious.

To be honest its kind of dull to argue with someone who constantly shift the goal posts in order to "win" an arguement on the internet,though this is a corker

I agree. Neither racists nor anti-semites can be allies. But nonracist anticapitalists who are stupidly labelled "right-wing" by those whose interest is to divide the opposition can be.

phil in the face of overwhelming evidence conceedes that Dieduenne is an apologist for holocaust denying nazi shitcunts shifts the goal post to some existential arse navel gazing about the nature of labelling things "right wing". And having already conceeded Dieduenne less than half a day prior to be an anti semite posts the first sentence in support of the second