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Anelka's quenelle

frogwoman said:
The alternative being a society like Saudi Arabia where 'respecting' religious views is mandatory even when those views involve beheading people for adultery etc because its part of their beliefs, hey why not. And religious critique is how all religions came about.

And I'm sorry but in another thread you said that thinking that only good people go to heaven and paedophiles and the like wouldn't was horrible and judging who is worthy of God's love, I don't have a problem with you thinking that because fair enough, its part of Christianity that all who believe shall be able to get redemption etc, but the idea of heaven being for good people only no matter what they believe, is one of the major features of Judaism as opposed to Christianity. I don't have a problem with people criticizing that, in some ways it's fair enough and I'm not sure what I think about it, but then again its a bit hypocritical for you to turn round and say that I can't criticize religious beliefs when you did the same? Anyway I think you're sound and I didn't want to upset you, I'm just saying?
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Respecting views does not mean agreeing, or condoning actions that result from those beliefs eg beheading. It doesn't even mean not questioning them or challenging them. It just means being able to listen and consider the argument without saying its ridiculous from the outset.

Did I really say paedophiles would definitely not go to heaven? If I did then I shouldn't of. Tbh in the last 6 months my views about faith, religion and God have been really shaken up and I'm still finding my way on a very new path of understanding with it all.

Stop worrying about offending me btw. We know each other better than that.
 
I agree with you there. And I meant that in Saudi Arabia it is mandatory to respect the religious views of one religion and never do anything to challenge it.
 
frogwoman said:
I agree with you there. And I meant that in Saudi Arabia it is mandatory to respect the religious views of one religion and never do anything to challenge it.
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But that's in effect the opposite of what I'm saying :confused: Odd example.
 
Edie said:
Respecting views does not mean agreeing, or condoning actions that result from those beliefs eg beheading. It doesn't even mean not questioning them or challenging them. It just means being able to listen and consider the argument without saying its ridiculous from the outset.

Did I really say paedophiles would definitely not go to heaven? If I did then I shouldn't of. Tbh in the last 6 months my views about faith, religion and God have been really shaken up and I'm still finding my way on a very new path of understanding with it all.

Stop worrying about offending me btw. We know each other better than that.
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Sorry to take this off topic, but how are you finding the whole looking into things, discussing it with religious peeps, and them trying to get you into their denomination? I found that part hellish, felt like i was pissing people off right left and centre when it turned out that this particular branch wasnt for me....
 
Edie said:
Respecting views does not mean agreeing, or condoning actions that result from those beliefs eg beheading. It doesn't even mean not questioning them or challenging them. It just means being able to listen and consider the argument without saying its ridiculous from the outset.

Did I really say paedophiles would definitely not go to heaven? If I did then I shouldn't of. Tbh in the last 6 months my views about faith, religion and God have been really shaken up and I'm still finding my way on a very new path of understanding with it all.

Stop worrying about offending me btw. We know each other better than that.
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No I was the one who said I didn't think they would, if we assume that heaven exists, which I'm not really sure about! And apparently that's judgmental even though its part of what Judaism says, that heaven is for the good (although interpretations vary about what good is) and that non Jews can also end up there assuming they are good. And that most people will probably get there, is in other words 'salvation' is based on how you behave
 
xslavearcx said:
Sorry to take this off topic, but how are you finding the whole looking into things, discussing it with religious peeps, and them trying to get you into their denomination? I found that part hellish, felt like i was pissing people off right left and centre when it turned out that this particular branch wasnt for me....
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I've not had a problem as my understanding of God is still at such a basic level that I'm a million miles away from being concerned with the details of what different denominations happen to believe iyswim. Currently ignoring that part. Flitting between an evangelical Anglican (I think) church and a baptist church (which a mates family happens to go to). Neither seems to make a point of highlighting differences (and I've no idea what they are, I'm concentrating on finding out about who Jesus was and what he said and did atm).

What did you do? :)
 
Edie said:
I've not had a problem as my understanding of God is still at such a basic level that I'm a million miles away from being concerned with the details of what different denominations happen to believe iyswim. Currently ignoring that part. Flitting between an evangelical Anglican (I think) church and a baptist church (which a mates family happens to go to). Neither seems to make a point of highlighting differences (and I've no idea what they are, I'm concentrating on finding out about who Jesus was and what he said and did atm).

What did you do? :)
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He listened to a lot of very bad music despite full well knowing there was much better stuff out there.
 
frogwoman said:
No I was the one who said I didn't think they would, if we assume that heaven exists, which I'm not really sure about! And apparently that's judgmental even though its part of what Judaism says, that heaven is for the good (although interpretations vary about what good is) and that non Jews can also end up there assuming they are good.
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Well it would seem to me that it's for God to judge.
 
Edie said:
Well it would seem to me that it's for God to judge.
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right,
But what I'm saying is that you can't say that I'm attacking Christians etc when you've criticized other religions' beliefs fairly harshly in the past, saying that the way they view the afterlife is wrong (not that I care, I'm not sure how I view it myself tbh)
 
frogwoman said:
right,
But what I'm saying is that you can't say that I'm attacking Christians etc when you've criticized other religions' beliefs fairly harshly in the past, saying that the way they view the afterlife is wrong (not that I care, I'm not sure how I view it myself tbh)
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Can you quote the post? Was I being a dick? :hmm:
 
Edie said:
I've not had a problem as my understanding of God is still at such a basic level that I'm a million miles away from being concerned with the details of what different denominations happen to believe iyswim. Currently ignoring that part. Flitting between an evangelical Anglican (I think) church and a baptist church (which a mates family happens to go to). Neither seems to make a point of highlighting differences (and I've no idea what they are, I'm concentrating on finding out about who Jesus was and what he said and did atm).

What did you do? :)
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I was a bloody nightmare, although i suspect it was more down to me being shit at that kinda stuff, and shit in particular at managing expectations. The big issue i had with islam when i first started getting into it was the notion of muhammad being the "seal of prophets". So i bumped into some converts once in the trainstation and confessed that this was my one issue with converting and it just so happened that they belonged to a sect (ahmadis/qadianis) that believed in a different interpretation that allowed for some other dude to be a kinda prophetic/messianic figure. so i went along to their mosque and hung out, got on really with the imam, but then i watched a video of their contemporary leader and it was cringeworthy, something there was no way id assent to. so now i needed an exit stategy, except that this imam had invited my mum and dad up for dinner, which i guess was preparing the ground for my conversion - so i had to bring my mum and dad into the fold of "not answering the telephone for a few weeks strategy" that i had employed lol.

Then there was the flirting between sunni and shia which i had decided on becomming shia after saying shahadah (the saying that initiates one into the muslim community) in a muslim bookshop which stoked many classics along the lines of the "the kaffir-ness of the mushrikun of the rafidi shia" (one doesnt even need to know arabic to know that its not a good judgement lol). so then there was the almost sneaking to the shia mosque faze... lol...

now i just have to avoid all muslims i knew from back in the day lol

all of my own making, but i suspect if you hang with anglicans you shouldnt have that problem tooo much (watch out for the baptists though!!))
 
TruXta said:
Sorry, just an in-joke. Fess up xslavearcx!
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actually the ahmadi dude in my last post was a hip hop advocate for islam at the time, so there is a bit of truth in that. plus my journey into islam began from vegan straightedge, into hardline (very politically dodge!), and then loads of them started converting to islam, so its not far from the truth ahha
 
xslavearcx said:
to be fair, it does get interpreted in a lot of ways that can allow for guru nanak, the bahai dude etc..
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Yes, but they posit an alternative "seal," right?

But I don't think there can ever be a seal.

It's awkward, as my wife and son are Muslim, but it seems like an insuperable obstacle to me.
 
phildwyer said:
One interpretation of one religion.
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Edie said:
Can you quote the post? Was I being a dick? :hmm:
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Yeah sure,http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/god.314880/page-46#post-12549373 and on that page

I don't think you were really being a dick but you can't then turn round and then say that I'm being scathing about Christianity, I have the right to point out what I don't like in the religion and I've actually gone out my way to say not everyone is like that.
 
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