An ordinary evening

[story]

So anyway, I was in Woolworths on the High Street and as I went in, I got a sudden feeling of alarm about my bag. I thought "Be careful, be aware, someone might steal it". And so I was careful, and aware, and someone stole it anyway.

It was a beautifully executed excercise. If these people put half as much care, attention, patience and dilligence into a proper job, they'd do very well at it.

I was browsing around, checking out the half-price stuff, intending to buy up a bunch of stuff for godchildrens' birthday presents, and so forth.

A young couple nearby were doing the same thing. The child in the buggy was sound asleep, the toddler ws grizzling a bit. Dad said "Come on, don't get in the way of the lady"; Mum said "You need to learn to be a bit more selfish, don't let the other children play with your stuff" eek: ).

The young couple were cruising the same aisle as me, chatting with the toddler who was complaining that she needed a wee. I commented that she was probably bored. Dad strolled off with the buggy, Mum smiled and shrugged, ducking her chin into her collar.

My internal alarm was still going, but I couldn't understand why: there didn't seem to be any danger, I was watcing my bag, there were no dodgy looking coves nearby. Quite the reverse - this nice young family and their friendly bustling would deter any pickpockets from coming near.

Eventually, rather like getting used to the burglar alarm that goes on for so long that you tune it out, I stopped listening to my internal alarm.

There was a sudden clear space in my mind - like the sudden silence after the alarm stops. I realised that the friendly bustling had ceased, but my alarm had gone up a gear. My bag was gone.

I'd put it down in the trolly to compare two toys, and it was gone.

I raced to the front of the store and informed the security guard ("No, not seen anything..."), and then quickly toured the shop to find the nice young couple, to ask them if they'd seen anyone suspicious...

At which point it dawned on me - the couple had been shadowing me the whole time.

With hindsight, of course, it's totally obvious. At the time, I was entirely duped.

So the moral of this story is always trust your instincts, and don't let your guard down.

The worst part of the whole thing is that this couple were using their kids as a front.

The best part was that they dumped my stuff in the trash at KFC after cherry picking my (swiftly cancelled) credit card and my (very old and old fashioned) mobile phone. The lovely lovely cleaning staff at the KFC fished out every last item from the bin and got it all back to me.

 

[story]

Oh, and although the coppers on the street to whom I reported the theft were charming and attentive and involved, the shower of shite at the end of the phone when I tried to phone Brixton nick were utterly crap, as was later acknowldeged by the beat officer, and by another admin-type bloke.

 

[colacubes]

Oh mate

That sounds utterly shite - doesn't sound like they got off with too much though from what you said, which is a blessing.

Are you sure that it was definitely the couple? I'd make a police report asap and ask to see Woolies' CCTV (if they are arsey about it you should be able to get it on FOI - although there are experts on here who could tell you for defo).

I know what you mean about the internal alarm though. I can go for weeks or months without feeling worried round here but every now and again for no particular reason I feel edgy. I've been lucky so far, but know lots of people who haven't been.

Bless the KFC staff though. Was really sweet of them to help you out

 

[zuszsa]

Thats awful.

I am constantly amazed at the cheek of these scumbags. Glad they didn't manage to get much and you cancelled your cards before they could do any damage.

Using their kids is really low.

Feckin' Lowlifes

 

[TeeJay]

Sorry about your experience.

...I'd put it down in the trolly to compare two toys, and it was gone...

And therein lies the moral of the story (!) ... keep your bag firmly strapped to you, all zipped up, preferably in front of you and/or with the strap/handle held with one hand. Just get into the habit of doing this all the time and you won't need to 'feel alert' - I simply assume that if I create a chance for someone to nick stuff they probably will, just like the foxes will get into your bin.

 

[editor]

Sorry to hear about you losing your stuff.

When I ran Offline at the Dogstar and someone had a bag nicked and I remember talking to the manager next day and saying I recalled seeing a bit of a dodgy looking woman wandering about, suggesting it could have been her.

And then I realised how naive I'd been. The real culprit turned out to be a very smartly dressed woman - the sort you'd mistake for a fairly successful business exec.

Pro bag snatchers dress to fit in and often look like the last person you'd suspect - just like what happened to you.

 

[gaijingirl]

Bad luck Story - what a pisser! sometimes it doesn't matter how careful you are or your instincts, these things happen to the best of us. Great that you got all your stuff back - unless you've lost shit loads of money it tends to be losing all the stuff that's most annoying..

 

[detective-boy]

... the shower of shite at the end of the phone when I tried to phone Brixton nick were utterly crap,...

Another success for the Metropolitan Police. When, oh when, will they realise the damage their consistently crap telephone communication is doing.

story: Definitely contact Woolworths and ask for access to any CCTV images of the incident. Do it a.s.a.p. - they probably keep all footage for 30 days before binning it but they may keep it for far less depending on their policy.

The Act you need is the Data Protection Act (not the Freedom of Information Act - that one is all about public access to official records like meeting minutes, policies, reports, etc). There should be someone at the store nominated as a CCTV point of contact (may be called the Data Controller). If you explain what happened they may well search for any footage for you for free. If they are dificult, make a formal application for access to any footage of you as a "Data Subject" - the law requires them to explain how to do this (they will probably have a form) clearly and allows them to charge up to £10 (some places do, some don't).

You are entitled to view / have copies of any footage of you but they may refuse if it would be disproportionately expensive to allow that (e.g. there's crowds of other people and they can't edit them out / pixillate them). If there is footage of the theft then they may decide they can release the images of the people concerned to you as the victim (the law allows release in connection with proposed criminal or civil proceedings) or they may keep it and say they will release it to the police. If this happens get back on to the police and pester them into getting it.

The police quite possibly won't go and check with Woolworths themselves (maybe because they won't think to or maybe because they simply haven't got the time to do this for every offence). It IS worth chasing it yourself as there are lots of examples of footage being available and not being used.

If you find there is footage and have any difficulty getting it released or getting the police interested, feel free to PM me. Make sure you formally request that Woolworths securely retain any such footage pending legal proceedings and do so in writing.

(ETA: And re- KFC: Let's all make a point of mentioning their efforts next time (if ever!) we go in, it'll encourage them to do the same again)

 

[story]

Thanks for all your support Urbs.

Detective-boy - I really appreciate the time you took to say all that. I maybe should have written up the rest of the story to save you the trouble, but didn't want to go on and on and on in a single post.

When I realised my bag had gone, I ran to the front of the shop to talk to the security guard, who hadn't noticed anyone carrying my bag (fair enough). A kind stander-by offered me her mobile so I could phne home. I wanted to confirm that my bag had indeed been pinched rather than somehow rolled under a display or something (vain and desperate hope springs eternal...). Not knowing my own number by heart, I phoned home and asked them to phone my mobile. This was done, and it was picked up and cut off.

On the way to the nick to report the theft, I saw two beat coppers and told them about it. They took down all the details, and were kind and thoughtful and concerned for my welfare. A van with 3 coppers inside pulled up and hung about for a while. They offered to take me around to see if I could spot the culprit-family (I was more and more sure, as I gave my report, that it has been them). I declined the offer, to the obvious annoyance of one of them. The reason I gave was that I just wanted to get home, and I wanted to check around to see if my bag had been dumped anywhere.

My real reason was that I didn't want to be seen getting into a police van. I live and work in the local community, I'm known by certain types, and being seen getting into to a van full of pigs on the high street might create possible trouble for myself in the future.

The thieves then, starting at A, began texting my address book to say "Sorry, forgotten my PIN, please text it to me, I'm in Boots". As luck would have it, my housemate's name is first in the address book, and because I'd phoned home, he knew what was occurring. He was stalling the thieves, giving jokey responses, pretending to be looking for my PIN, asking where I stored it etc.

(At one point, the text that came through was "Listen, stop messing about, I've been kidnapped by two black men all they want is my PIN number, please send it".)

So I got home after declining the offer to go for a drive in the police van t find my housemate stalling the thieves on his mobile phone.

I phoned Brixton nick, was put on hold for a while, finally got through and told them what was happening, and that we were holding them on the phone.

Their response...? "What do you want us to do about it?" That's actually what he said.

I said "Well I don't know, but you're the police, I thought maybe you might have an idea".

We then had an utterly preposterous conversation, with me saying things like "Well it just seems like an opportunity to possibly solve a crime and maybe nab a crim..."; and them saying "Well we can't spare the manpower"; and me saying "Well there were five cops helping me in the street, three of them arguing with me for 10 minutes to get into their van and go for a drive"; and them saying "Well if you wouldn't get into the van there's not much we can do"; and me saying "Well if I'd got into the van I wouldn't have come home in time to discover than we have the thieves on the sodding phone and now have an opportunity to actually find them!" And so on.

He said "Well if someone becomes available, we'll send them round to your house and go from there". Needless to say no-one came, and no-one phoned back about it.

Setting aside the stuff about them probably not being in Boots, and it being nigh on impossible to know where they were, it still seemed to me like something that the cops might have wanted to follow up... a "lead", isnt it? or a "lucky break"? (fucksake )

I know that a bag snatch in Brixton is waaaay down low on the scale, but it seems to me that the cop on the phone saying "Well what do you want us to do about it?" cannot be said to be police work, in any way or sense. At all.

Long after I had given up on the possibility of this (admittedly slender) we-have-them-on-the-phone opportunity, the lovely WPC to whom I had originally reported the theft called to update me. She said that they'd seen the CCTV footage, and not only could she confirm that the Culprit Family had carried (what looked like) my bag out of the shop, but they had actually followed me into the shop in the first place.

(This explains why my internal alarm started going the instant I set foot inside Woolworths. Their directed attention and intent had triggered my instinct, and my alarm went off. Like savannah predators with their prey, they walked and roamed with me until that split moment when my attention was elsewhere. They judged their moment perfectly. Such patience! Such skill! Obviously very experienced at this work...)

I then updated the WPC about the texting thing, and my phone call to the police station. Her response was "Hmmm, it does seem odd that no-one followed that up".

When my stuff was retrieved and returned to me, I called the police to let them know. The bloke I spoke to looked at the screen and, seeing the report of my phone call about the "What's my PIN?" texts, asked me what had happened about that. When I told him that no-one had followed it up, he said "That looks like a missed opportunity".

So there we go. The long and trite saga of yet more crap policing. Given that the beat coppers were so helpful and so involved (spending a whole two hours viewing the CCTV footage, according to the security guard who I spoke to the following day, and phoning me back to update me), it is a real shame that the station back-up guys did nothing to support their efforts.

As I've said before, and will no dount have reason to say again: Fucking police, shower of shite.

 

[story]

Oh - and I did write a thank you note in a card to the manager and staff at KFC.

 

[detective-boy]

As I've said before, and will no dount have reason to say again: Fucking police, shower of shite.

Their communication / attitude was shite, for sure. But there probably was very little which could have been done in relation to the texting business. Although there are theoretically lots of opportunities, they are very difficult to get off the ground and take a huge amount of time and effort. If it had been a kidnapping or something then they would have been attempted but, most likely, they would have failed anyway.

The only reasonable possibility would have been if a ruse could have been constructed to get them to a particular place where they could have been nicked ... but, off the top of my head, I cannot think of one which would have been believable to them on the facts you've given.

Sadly the best opportunity to catch them was the running you round the area for a while. Did you explain why you were really reluctant to get in the van? If so they could have arranged to meet you somewhere else, or to get an unmarked car (if one was available). The frustration one of them expressed when you didn;t would be because they know that is the most likely way to get a result in a case like this.

 

[story]

Their communication / attitude was shite, for sure. But there probably was very little which could have been done in relation to the texting business. Although there are theoretically lots of opportunities, they are very difficult to get off the ground and take a huge amount of time and effort. If it had been a kidnapping or something then they would have been attempted but, most likely, they would have failed anyway.

The only reasonable possibility would have been if a ruse could have been constructed to get them to a particular place where they could have been nicked ... but, off the top of my head, I cannot think of one which would have been believable to them on the facts you've given.

Sadly the best opportunity to catch them was the running you round the area for a while. Did you explain why you were really reluctant to get in the van? If so they could have arranged to meet you somewhere else, or to get an unmarked car (if one was available). The frustration one of them expressed when you didn;t would be because they know that is the most likely way to get a result in a case like this.

I have no argument with anything that you say here d-b.

I realise - even knew at the time, really - that the chance of being able to do anything like set a trap was slim unto non-existant; but thought I'd give the police the opportunity to at least consider the opportunity.... After all, the police are trained to out-think the common criminal, yes?

No, I didn't explain my real reason for not wanting to get into the van with them. When this situation has occurred in the past (an attempted mugging) I did explain and was scoffed at. Didn't bother this time.

In the event, we would not have spotted the culprit family, since they were sitting in KFC rootling through my possessions and texting my housemate....

In conversation with the WPC (she was lovely - I wish I could remember her name, I'd send a card or something) she said "It is difficult for us". I said "I know, it must be dreadfully difficult for you, but the police don't seem to understand how difficult it is for us, the public."

Next to think about is this: if these people are caught - for this or for something similar - there is a the possibility that I may be called to give evidence. So then I have to worry about being a visible local giving evidence for the prosecution; and then if they get sent down, what about the kids? Two kids under 5. They might not be their own children, I suppose - might be borrowed from relatives for the operation; and I suppose the courts would try to keep the family intact. But I am aware of the possiblity that one or both parents (if that's what they are) might be sent down - what then for the kids? Fining them would just give them more need for ready money therefore more incentive to steal. A suspended sentence isn't much of a deterent to a career criminal, nor is community service.

Someone's bound to say "These people shouldn't be raising kids - at least not in this way - take the children away". Not sure if foster care is the better alternative though...

 

[detective-boy]

So then I have to worry about being a visible local giving evidence for the prosecution; and then if they get sent down, what about the kids?

Don't worry about giving evidence. The instances of any sort of repurcussions (apart from hard stares at the Court room) are really, really tiny where the witness is telling the truth and unconnected with the defendants. The horror stories the media dish up usually involve something else (such as an ongoing fued where both parties are known to each other).

There are all sorts of things which the police, CPS and Courts can do to reduce fears of problems in cases where there are any specific grounds to expect problems.

And don't waste any effort worrying about splitting the family up. It is highly unlikely that they would both get prison for this offence anyway, and children aren't permanently removed even if they were - in most instances I am aware of the kids end up getting looked after by relatives or friends.

 

[story]

Thanks for the reassurance detective-boy. More information to work with is always good.

 

[two sheds]

Glad you didn't lose too much out of it in the end, story. I'm impressed at your alarm system though, i'd have missed all that completely.

 

[Gixxer1000]

getting into to a van full of pigs .

And you're criticising the attitude of the Police

 

[story]

And you're criticising the attitude of the Police

(oh god, once again I fall foul of the lack of inflection & visual cues that is the bane of online posting)

This is the only place where I used such terminology. Indeed, I praised the attitude and actions of the beat coppers who took my report.



This is what I said:

My real reason was that I didn't want to be seen getting into a police van. I live and work in the local community, I'm known by certain types, and being seen getting into to a van full of pigs on the high street might create possible trouble for myself in the future.

In the context of the paragraph, I was saying that I would be seen to be getting into a "van load of pigs" by people who may then make judgements and assumptions about me because I was voluntarily in the company of the police. I was using the term "pigs" as a way of communicating that I am aware of that atitude, and am aware that such an attitude may extend to me had I accepted their offer.


Actually, this seems so obvious to me that I'm wondering why I took the time to respond.....

Maybe you didn't read my whole (admittedly long) story?

 

[Gixxer1000]

Maybe you didn't read my whole (admittedly long) story?

No I did and I apologise if I wrongly assumed it was another in a long line of veiled attacks on the Police.
The reality is there is nothing they could do though isnt it? Short of making at lot of PR type noises.
Sorry to be so blunt particularly as I realise that this is probably a cathartic exercise for you -its a shit thing to have happened.

 

[OpalFruit]

The other important moral of this story is: if you get a text from a mate or family member's phone requesting confidential info like a PIN no, don't text it back!