Amanda Knox Is Innocent

[belboid]

That is actually incredibly vague about what the issue with the knife is. Poor protocols is not the same as 'wrong' - and it is very clear what the issues with the bra strap are. Add in the fact that Sollecito came up with a clearly false story to account for the blood that supposedly isn't there.....

But, as I said above, we can still discount the knife and have enough evidence to convict. There is enough doubt for their to be a retrial, and that is fair, for all the evidence to be re-examined. but that is what is happening now, it is all being re-examined. And there's more than enough on the other side for the conviction to stand.

Solloecito's footprint could not have got there without him being in some way involved. If he was, by their own alibies (whichever of the half doxen versions you want to believe), she was too. How do you explain that? Because that has to be explained away for a verdict of not guilty to be brought.

 

[dylans]

That is actually incredibly vague about what the issue with the knife is. Poor protocols is not the same as 'wrong' - and it is very clear what the issues with the bra strap are. Add in the fact that Sollecito came up with a clearly false story to account for the blood that supposedly isn't there.....

But, as I said above, we can still discount the knife and have enough evidence to convict. There is enough doubt for their to be a retrial, and that is fair, for all the evidence to be re-examined. but that is what is happening now, it is all being re-examined. And there's more than enough on the other side for the conviction to stand.

Solloecito's footprint could not have got there without him being in some way involved. If he was, by their own alibies (whichever of the half doxen versions you want to believe), she was too. How do you explain that? Because that has to be explained away for a verdict of not guilty to be brought.

I don't know. I can't. All I know is enough doubt has been introduced to make this conviction unsafe. It is forensic evidence that ties all three to the crime scene and we know that there are serious questions about the quality of that forensic evidence. I would agree with you about a retrial however

 

[Anudder Oik]

For me, Sollecito's letter strengthens the police forensic's version as opposed to the later independent forensic investigation which has not delivered an outright rejection of the DNA evidence.

 

[dylans]

It's really the findings of forensic experts with experience in the field against findings from 2 universty profesors without field experience. One set are independent and the other are police/prosecution. So take your pick.

If the choice is between cops and independent investigators I would pick independant investigators every time. Remember the Birmingham 6 case and the Guildford 4 and the Maguire family, when the police forensic "expert" claimed ordinary household products were explosives and on that "evidence" falsely convicted 19 people.

As I said in the other thread, it is extremely unfair to dismiss the qualifications (not the findings but the qualifications) of independant investigators employed not by the defence but by the appeals judge because their findings are not what the prosecution wanted to hear. Would they (and you) have objected to their qualifications if their findings strengthened the prosecution case ? If there was a legitimate question of the competence of the investigators the prosecution should have raised their objections when they were appointed not when their investigation is completed because it damages the prosecutions case

 

[phildwyer]

aah come on, phil is desperately trying to mix up the media reporting with the actual evidence. the satanic ritual stuff made up a tiny amount of the case, but it got a lot of attention for all the obvious reasons.

Yes, it got attention from the jury who, along with the rest of the public, read the sensationalized reports to which I have been pointing.

Now do you understand, fool?

 

[phildwyer]

clearly identified as Solecittos on the bath mat.

It's not "clearly identified" at all. Footprints aren't like fingerprints.

 

[savoloysam]

I have just ploughed through that true justice link. The crux of the argument is that either this guy Guede, who is unarguably guilty, broke into the house and sexually assaulted and killed Kercher in which case we have a relatively mundane and grubby murder case or he was invited into the house for a weird violent sex party in which Kercher was obliged to take part and then held down, assaulted and murdered by everyone in the house when she refused.

Occam's razor, What scenario seems most likely? The former of course. For this reason, I think there is enough reasonable doubt for me to vote innocent.

Ok sherlock. Try applying Occams razor to all the other evidence against them. Click on the BBC link that shows what they were convicted on and it's not just DNA and apply your magical occams razor all that.

 

[dylans]

Ok sherlock. Try applying Occams razor to all the other evidence against them. Click on the BBC link that shows what they were convicted on and it's not just DNA and apply your magical occams razor all that.

I don't need to. Innocence doesn't have to be proved. Guilt does. All that is required for an acquittal is reasonable doubt and there is plenty of that. The trial was clearly unfair on so many levels. Therefore the conviction is not safe

 

[savoloysam]

She is currently guilty by law. Reasonible doubt will only allow a retrial.

 

[dylans]

She is currently guilty by law. Reasonible doubt will only allow a retrial.

I agree with a retrial.

 

[Deareg]

The prosecutor told the jury not to believe in fairy tales, which is a bit rich considering his earlier claims of Satanism and occultism, it also says that he has been convicted of abuse of office over phone tapping during another murder case.

eta, in today's Daily mirror

 

[savoloysam]

I agree with a retrial.

I'm not sure how italian law works, I read if her appeal is successful, the prosecution have to appeal that decision. Third decisions become absolute.

A re-trial would make more sense.

 

[Giles]

Sure, but we don't even need to look at the tainted evidence. Just look at the way the story's been reported, then look at the facts.

For example. Since many people on this site seem to have experience with soft drug use, look at the way her "drug use" (she smoked a couple of spliffs) has been distorted and presented as some "edge" behavior, likely to drive her to murder. Now compare that with what you know to be the truth. Now do that with the entire case.

We've all been there, surely? Smoke a couple of spliffs, and you get a sudden urge to (a) order a pizza, or (b) grab hold of your housemate, you you only met a few days ago, and insist she joins you in a "twisted sex game" involving you, your just-met boyfriend and some random geezer you met in a local bar, and then slash her throat when she refuses.

Giles..

 

[phildwyer]

We've all been there, surely? Smoke a couple of spliffs, and you get a sudden urge to (a) order a pizza, or (b) grab hold of your housemate, you you only met a few days ago, and insist she joins you in a "twisted sex game" involving you, your just-met boyfriend and some random geezer you met in a local bar, and then slash her throat when she refuses.

Giles..

One would certainly have thought that the complete and utter lack of either (a) motive or (b) the slightest hint of psychopathology in Knox's previous character would be enough to give people doubts with regard to this one.

Those who think her guilty must have a pretty dark view of human nature.

 

[Anudder Oik]

One would certainly have thought that the complete and utter lack of either (a) motive or (b) the slightest hint of psychopathology in Knox's previous character would be enough to give people doubts with regard to this one.

Those who think her guilty must have a pretty dark view of human nature.

Sollicito, instead of having a poster of pop stars or football teams on his wall, as do many young people, had instead a huge fucking knife similar to that seen in Rambo attached to the wall above the bed in his room. You can see photos of his collection of knives on the website I linked.

Can you answer any of the questions I've asked in a technical and logical way, or does all of this boil down to gut feeling with you because she's white, american, pretty and being held in captivity by a third world corrupt police force?

Whatsmore, people have been going on about the judge talking about Satanism. Where is there a link to this source?

 

[Anudder Oik]

Those who think her guilty must have a pretty dark view of human nature.

It's nothing to do with a view of her, that's obviously how you see it, it's more to do with the evidence presented, the contradictions and the lies. What do you have to say about the staged break in? Talk technical, I dare you.

Earlier you said that the knox family didn't have money to buy journalists but the italian press are reporting that the Knox's are in fact managing a million dollar PR campaign. That's a lot of money to buy journos like in Time magazine and italian rags.

 

[belboid]

Yes, it got attention from the jury who, along with the rest of the public, read the sensationalized reports to which I have been pointing.

Now do you understand, fool?

lol, the reports you have pointed to havednt been italian ones, stop fibbing just cos you've made a dick of yourself

 

[belboid]

We've all been there, surely? Smoke a couple of spliffs, and you get a sudden urge to (a) order a pizza, or (b) grab hold of your housemate, you you only met a few days ago, and insist she joins you in a "twisted sex game" involving you, your just-met boyfriend and some random geezer you met in a local bar, and then slash her throat when she refuses.

Giles..

not even the mad prosecutor has actually suggsted anything like that. the basic point, that getting a bit twatted makes people more likely to go along with something they wouldnt otherwise, can hardly be disputed.

 

[gabi]

not read the thread - why is this case so high-profile? doesnt seem any reason for it to be. is it coz the accused is kinda hot?

 

[Stanley Edwards]

not read the thread - why is this case so high-profile? doesnt seem any reason for it to be. is it coz the accused is kinda hot?

She is a good looking young woman, but that isn't why the case has become so high profile. It has a good media story, and the families fo those involved are relatively wealthy.

Also, a Berlusconi founded group high lighting wrongful convictions is involved. He stands to gain much by discrediting the Italian justice system.

It's a fascinating (if grim) story. Very strange story also.

 

[goldenecitrone]

One would certainly have thought that the complete and utter lack of either (a) motive or (b) the slightest hint of psychopathology in Knox's previous character would be enough to give people doubts with regard to this one.

Those who think her guilty must have a pretty dark view of human nature.

I blame Stephen King.

 

[phildwyer]

It's nothing to do with a view of her, that's obviously how you see it, it's more to do with the evidence presented, the contradictions and the lies. What do you have to say about the staged break in? Talk technical, I dare you.

It looks like a real break-in to me. If it was staged, it was an incredibly accomplished job for three panicked people who had just murdered their mate in cold blood.

Earlier you said that the knox family didn't have money to buy journalists but the italian press are reporting that the Knox's are in fact managing a million dollar PR campaign. That's a lot of money to buy journos like in Time magazine and italian rags.

Now you are coming across as deliberately misleading. The Knox family has been reported as spending ONE million (singular) on their campaign, which was everything they could beg, steal or borrow. So obviously not a wealthy family then.

And if you really believe that Time magazine can be bought for a million dollars then you know nothing about the media.

 

[phildwyer]

not even the mad prosecutor has actually suggsted anything like that.

Yes he has, fool. He has suggested that the murder was committed in "a rage caused by smoking marijuana."

And so you now look even more silly.

 

[phildwyer]

getting a bit twatted makes people more likely to go along with something they wouldnt otherwise, can hardly be disputed.

So we can add "drugs" to the long list of "things about which Belboid knows nothing."

I'm sorry Belboid, but smoking a joint does NOT make one more likely to commit murder.

On the contrary, it is said to produce a relaxed and "mellow" vibe more conducive to simply hanging out and chillaxing.

Your above statement is as squirmy and misleading as the prosecutor himself.

 

[likesfish]

mind you alcohol and dope is really the devils mixture
probably cause a bit of dope makes you pissed really quickly

 

[ViolentPanda]

The socalled "forensic evidence" is bollocks. If they'd killed Meredith with their bare hands, their blood would be splattered everywhere.

No, Kerchners' blood might be, but why would the blood of her killers be "splattered everywhere"?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I read a terrible terrible article in the metro about this today. It seems to sum up the pro knoxes on this thread very well.
The article starts with a little bit about her innocence and how terrible it is that she has been locked up for so long already, this is however later revealed to be quotes from her defense so of course they are going to say that. It goes on with more quotes from the defense about the DNA evidence and how it cannot be submitted. Finally the article ends with a short quote from the prosecutor, and yes you guessed it, it's just the mad bit, one line about her being a crazy sex hungry satanist.
It's shit one sided lazy chicken fed journalism like this that I assume the pro knoxes like phil are basing their case on. It really only takes a tiny bit of work for anyone to look up the details themselves.

Theres boat loads of other evidence. It's like if 10 people witnessed me steal a car but the defense wanted to argue which shoes I was wearing that day.
The sodding metro would report that the prosecution had wrongly said I had been wearing different shoes and should be acquitted.
"The prosecution hounded the young man spouting tales of his naughtiness, despite the fact the evidence of his footwear that day had to be discounted.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If the choice is between cops and independent investigators I would pick independant investigators every time. Remember the Birmingham 6 case and the Guildford 4 and the Maguire family, when the police forensic "expert" claimed ordinary household products were explosives and on that "evidence" falsely convicted 19 people.

Hmm, if you're going to be scrupulously fair, then it's incumbent on you to acknowledge that nitrocellulose contamination from household products (including playing cards) was a common mistake made by forensic (independent or retained) investigators well into the 1980s, because it wasn't commonly understood just how easily trace amounts of it transfer onto the skin, or how robust/long-lived those traces can be in amenable conditions.

As I said in the other thread, it is extremely unfair to dismiss the qualifications (not the findings but the qualifications) of independant investigators employed not by the defence but by the appeals judge because their findings are not what the prosecution wanted to hear. Would they (and you) have objected to their qualifications if their findings strengthened the prosecution case ? If there was a legitimate question of the competence of the investigators the prosecution should have raised their objections when they were appointed not when their investigation is completed because it damages the prosecutions case

I personally wouldn't dismiss out of hand any of the forensic evidence, but I'd be very wary of attributing context to it unless other evidence supported that context solidly, and I'd bear in mind that forensic physical evidence is seldom as clear-cut as the likes of CSI try to imply.

I'm not convinced one way or another about Knox's guilt or innocence, and unluckily for Knox, the evidence, such as it is, doesn't favour one side or another.
The power and political games played during the trial are obvious, and doubtless alarming to those of us used to a UK or US judicial system, but they're also a function of Italy's particular version of an inquisitorial judicial system. To expect an inquisitorial system to function in the same way as an adversarial system, to not use some of the tactics indulged in, would be naive, and vice versa.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It looks like a real break-in to me. If it was staged, it was an incredibly accomplished job for three panicked people who had just murdered their mate in cold blood.

So accomplished that they made the tyro's mistake of breaking the window after turning the room over?

Now you are coming across as deliberately misleading. The Knox family has been reported as spending ONE million (singular) on their campaign, which was everything they could beg, steal or borrow. So obviously not a wealthy family then.

And if you really believe that Time magazine can be bought for a million dollars then you know nothing about the media.

Who's talking about buying the magazine?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes he has, fool. He has suggested that the murder was committed in "a rage caused by smoking marijuana."

And so you now look even more silly.

Marijuana rage? That's a new one on me, even given the paranoia-inducing qualities of some skunk.