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Ama Sumani is dead

Dic Penderyn

Newport Civic Pride!
Killed by the Border & immigration Agency.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7305963.stm

This sunday's benefit gig will still be going ahead, any funds raised will go to a similar fund.

A benefit for ama sumani

The Arteries
Black Caesar (semi acoustic set)
Drop Dead Darlin
Tracey Curtis
Dirty Revolution

http://www.myspace.com/thearteries
http://www.myspace.com/blackcesarrock
http://www.myspace.com/wearedropdeaddarlin
http://www.myspace.com/traceycurtis
http://www.myspace.com/dirtyrevolution

http://www.amasumani.eu/

http://www.noborderswales.org.uk/

Sunday 23rd March
Clwb Ifor Bach
£5 / Doors 7:30
 
:(

sick!

was discussing the benefit gig and listening to some of the bands last night
 
Killed by the Border & immigration Agency.
.

No she wasn't she died of Cancer.

For the record I disagreed with deporting her and gave reasons in a thread earlier. However screeching emotive comments like 'killed by the border and immigration agency' do nothing to convince the average bod of the rightness of the cause.

Sometimes speaking softly and accurately is a much better way of getting a result than screaming slogans through a megaphone.

Good luck with the gig and giving the money to her kids is a good idea.
 
Yeah, that's right. Lets stay cool and calm while a terminally ill mother is wheeled out of a hospital. Jesus, couldn't you just trade your "dispassion" for "compassion" for even a second?

If all you do is screech you will never convince anyone but those who already believe.

For the record I thought she should have been allowed to stay.
 
No she wasn't she died of Cancer.

For the record I disagreed with deporting her and gave reasons in a thread earlier. However screeching emotive comments like 'killed by the border and immigration agency' do nothing to convince the average bod of the rightness of the cause.

Sometimes speaking softly and accurately is a much better way of getting a result than screaming slogans through a megaphone.

Good luck with the gig and giving the money to her kids is a good idea.
i think if nothing else she was in effect sentenced to death by them.

and the bloody ridicuious polices promoted by oiks liek you who seem to think that you have some more intrinsict right to a free and fair life than other people...

well you don't.

abnd you opinions in this matter are truely sickening...
 
What pisses me off is that there are multitudes of 'activists' who will turn out to defend an illegal (for the record she should have been allowed to die here for compassionate reasons) but when ordinary brits of whatever race or creed are shat upon these activists are nowhere to be seen. Those who work hard and help their communities are becoming the forgotten people.

My dad has worked for 50 odd years, hardly ever taken a day off sick, always paid his tax and NI, always paid his bills yet when he was rushed to hospital with a heart condition the fucking butchers shop of a hospital refused, yes REFUSED to give him a blanket against the cold despite him asking and the family repeatedly asking. Yet this hospital which apparantly can't afford to keep a decent hospital laundry going can afford ranks of useless waste of space management, ethinic liasion officers, translators and fuck knows what else.

I'm sad that this woman couldn't die in the UK but she wasn't entitled to be here and to be frank we should be prioritising those who've contributed to this country and those fleeing oppression.
 
when you can find me a classification which defines an illegal human being then you will haev a point until then while the wealth can swan all over the world but those inpoverty cannot there's not merit in haveing any discussion with anyone who cannot differeintiate between their own personal circumstances and selfish ends and the pligh of others signifcantly less well off than them.

i think perhpahs in your case KBJ your previous experines with people have left you in a place where you are polarised without compassion or insight into the sufferin of others odd when you consider what you yourself have been throuhg but entirely in keeping with the product of an abused mentality...

you are wrong not just on this wider issue but in most ways you come at things.

there's little to be said detailing why, you just are.

the sooner you establish why others conitnueally think of you as wrong the quicker you will move on and grow as a human being...
 
when you can find me a classification which defines an illegal human being then you will haev a point until then while the wealth can swan all over the world but those inpoverty cannot there's not merit in haveing any discussion with anyone who cannot differeintiate between their own personal circumstances and selfish ends and the pligh of others signifcantly less well off than them.
.
I should have said illegal IMMIGRANT. Its not the person that is illegal it is what they have done which is illegal. I should have clarified that.
i think perhpahs in your case KBJ your previous experines with people have left you in a place where you are polarised without compassion or insight into the sufferin of others odd when you consider what you yourself have been throuhg but entirely in keeping with the product of an abused mentality...
.
I've got plenty of compassion for those suffering. I believe that those fleeing oppression have a greater right to enter the UK than those who are here for economic reasons. I've supported charities, community projects and have always tried to walk that extra mile. However, that doesn't mean that an individual or a nation or a community should consent to having the piss taken out of them.

For years I was the first to speak out in favour of the percieved rights of immigrants to enter the uk on an open borders basis and the workshy not to work. What has changed is I've seen that I was utterly and terribly wrong to hold those views. It takes knocks to remove naiveity. I've seen too many tossers who really should be on a fucking chain gang somewhere or being pelted with rotten fruit in the local stocks getting away with so much whether it be crimes committed or benefits scrounged.

All the while I've seen this going on I've seen the decent people the people who care for their children, the people who work, the people who put out for their local communities, the people who were the backbone of their local union branch, community groups all shat up on and told to fuck off while nothing was done to either punish the wrongdoer or reward the deserving who are struggling while the undeserving flourish.
you are wrong not just on this wider issue but in most ways you come at things.
.
Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it.

the sooner you establish why others conitnueally think of you as wrong the quicker you will move on and grow as a human being...

The problem is is not that I'm wrong per se its just that those of a naive persuasion especially on here tell me I'm wrong.

The sort of leftism talked up on here has very little of what all political groupings should have which is common sense.
 
<grumblegrumble>foreigners coming over here and stealing our blankets!! </grumblegrumble>
:mad::rolleyes:
 
<grumblegrumble>foreigners coming over here and stealing our blankets!! </grumblegrumble>
:mad::rolleyes:

Just wait til you've got a loved one in the same position.

Anyway its not about the blankets its about the priorities and recognising peoples contribution to the wealth of the country.

I don't like to use the phrase but there does appear to be a division in poverty in so far as there are the deserving poor and the undeserving poor. Maybe we should look after those who have contributed and also those in need rather than lifestyle spongers, economic migrants and the bosses who profit from them and health and benefit tourists we might actually start to feel better about ourselves and our country. A better nation would be better able to reach out and help other countries. No point in just impoverishing us all for dogma.
 
What pisses me off is that there are multitudes of 'activists' who will turn out to defend an illegal (for the record she should have been allowed to die here for compassionate reasons) but when ordinary brits of whatever race or creed are shat upon these activists are nowhere to be seen. Those who work hard and help their communities are becoming the forgotten people.

I know an activist who turned out to defend her, and a few weeks later she was with the remploy workers (very much 'ordinary brits'), then a few weeks later with the DWP strikers. What point are you trying to make?

I think you'll find the kind of people sticking up for Ama Sumani are in fact the only people that are working hard to help their communities. What a stupid accusation you have made.

Helping one Ghanaian woman or even a hundred Ghanaian women isn't going to 'impoverish' anyone.
 
I should have said illegal IMMIGRANT. Its not the person that is illegal it is what they have done which is illegal. I should have clarified that.

I beleive you did it as it's become a shorthand for those who some people view as undersireable. not due to a typo. intresting use of social conditioning really when you think about it.

I've got plenty of compassion for those suffering. I believe that those fleeing oppression have a greater right to enter the UK than those who are here for economic reasons. I've supported charities, community projects and have always tried to walk that extra mile. However, that doesn't mean that an individual or a nation or a community should consent to having the piss taken out of them.

compassion has no conditions attached to it, nor is it based on a worthness valuation. both of which you have done here.

My guess is it was more a case of doing what you beleived was right rather than knowing what you beleived was right.

to paraphrase thatcher 'it's all very well to have these opinions or poltics if they come from conviction...' oddly she was talking about blair, but it seems to apply to you as well.

we're not despite everything we are still one of the richest nations in the world the majority if not all that wealth has been amassed as any one know through the exploitation of those countries less well off than ourselves.

The number one place for refugees at the moment is from ?
Iraq the second place Afghanistain...

find that conicidence odd we bomb them we kill them we inflict total socital break down on them and suddenly they want to leave.

For years I was the first to speak out in favour of the percieved rights of immigrants to enter the uk on an open borders basis and the workshy not to work. What has changed is I've seen that I was utterly and terribly wrong to hold those views. It takes knocks to remove naiveity. I've seen too many tossers who really should be on a fucking chain gang somewhere or being pelted with rotten fruit in the local stocks getting away with so much whether it be crimes committed or benefits scrounged.

they aren't on benifits.

a total fabrication which time in time out you have been shown to be wrong about.

If they have leave to remain then like all other citizens they are full entitled to utilise our social services as is every other citizen, unless you have some deep seated racist.

All the while I've seen this going on I've seen the decent people the people who care for their children, the people who work, the people who put out for their local communities, the people who were the backbone of their local union branch, community groups all shat up on and told to fuck off while nothing was done to either punish the wrongdoer or reward the deserving who are struggling while the undeserving flourish.
so the system is wrong and the solution is to prevent the least able to help themselves from entering until this is sorted...

sorry mate you can't come in i appreacate your dyding but we have problems of our own...

I'm alright jack pull the ladder up... and all that...

Thats your opinion and you are welcome to it.

i think you'll find it's a general consenious ...

The problem is is not that I'm wrong per se its just that those of a naive persuasion especially on here tell me I'm wrong.
translation:
I'm so arrogantly invested in my own rhetoric i couldn't possible listen to more reasoned points of view because it would force me to confront my own problems with forginers and how i deal with them that's all you are saying here...

The sort of leftism talked up on here has very little of what all political groupings should have which is common sense.
I wouldn't know i'm not left wing. I'm just not a bigot either. and it's utterly nonsensical to say the poor impoverished of the world should be barred from entry because the petty nationals are afraid of their different cultures.

How exactly do you square your supposed liberation sexually with your deep seated right wing views.
 
I know an activist who turned out to defend her, and a few weeks later she was with the remploy workers (very much 'ordinary brits'), then a few weeks later with the DWP strikers. What point are you trying to make?
That the more 'internationalist' and 'exotic' causes seem to be immediately taken up by activists as opposed to the sort of problems I mentioned earlier. Its the profile that the more internationalist causes get as opposed to the more down to earth ones that is out of proportion.
I think you'll find the kind of people sticking up for Ama Sumani are in fact the only people that are working hard to help their communities. What a stupid accusation you have made.
Not a stupid accusation. You get people going into paroxysims of anger over stuff like this but they seem to be much more mealy mouthed or worse silent over issues where people are being cheated out of the services that they have contributed towards for years andyears.
Helping one Ghanaian woman or even a hundred Ghanaian women isn't going to 'impoverish' anyone.

The phrase impoverish by dogma was describing and aimed at those who have a naive belief in open borders and a corresponding distaste of those who have actually contributed to this nation.

If it was the choice between providing a service for a pensioner who has provided for their family and their country providing a service for an illegal immigrant the default position should be to provide for the individual who has actually put in the bloody pot.
 
I think what happened was a disgrace but does it have to become a platform for tired slanging matches? At the end of the day, us immigrants are here to stay, so let's all try and rub along...
 
KJ, your a completely insensitive cunt. The woman isn't even in the fucking ground and your fucking moaning about your dad's blanket.

How about you fuck right off.
 
I beleive you did it as it's become a shorthand for those who some people view as undersireable. not due to a typo. intresting use of social conditioning really when you think about it.

She had no right to be here. She was an illegal immigrant end of story.
compassion has no conditions attached to it, nor is it based on a worthness valuation. both of which you have done here.

You have to have some discrimination in doing it surely. Self protection would be one reason.
My guess is it was more a case of doing what you beleived was right rather than knowing what you beleived was right.

No I knew it was right to help.


we're not despite everything we are still one of the richest nations in the world the majority if not all that wealth has been amassed as any one know through the exploitation of those countries less well off than ourselves.

That was decades and decades ago. Are we to blame for kleptocrats like Mugabe and others?
The number one place for refugees at the moment is from ?
Iraq the second place Afghanistain...
find that conicidence odd we bomb them we kill them we inflict total socital break down on them and suddenly they want to leave.

Agree there. I think we've treated those Iraqi's who have helped us appallignly.


they aren't on benifits.

I wasn't referring to refugees I was referring to our own home grown spongers.


If they have leave to remain then like all other citizens they are full entitled to utilise our social services as is every other citizen, unless you have some deep seated racist.

Leave to remain shouldn't mean that they get more than those who have contributed though should it? They shoudl get the same. This woman LIED to remain in the UK she wasn't fleeing oppression. She was just an illegal immigrant.

so the system is wrong and the solution is to prevent the least able to help themselves from entering until this is sorted...

sorry mate you can't come in i appreacate your dyding but we have problems of our own...

I'm alright jack pull the ladder up... and all that...

Agree the system is wrong. The wrong people exploit it and the decent people get fucked over.


i think you'll find it's a general consenious ...

On here not outside here.


I wouldn't know i'm not left wing. I'm just not a bigot either. and it's utterly nonsensical to say the poor impoverished of the world should be barred from entry because the petty nationals are afraid of their different cultures.

Its nothing to do with peoples race or culture its the fact that the UK is full and that well meaning people in attempting as they see it to right wrongs have committed other wrongs on those born here. The abandonment of Sons and Daughters housing policy and its replacement by a needs driven system is part of that. Good idea on paper but disasterous in practice.
How exactly do you square your supposed liberation sexually with your deep seated right wing views.

I'm not right wing I'm a common sense ordinary working class person who truly believed the socialist guff for many years. Sexuality has nothing to do with it.
 
KJ, your a completely insensitive cunt. The woman isn't even in the fucking ground and your fucking moaning about your dad's blanket.

How about you fuck right off.

No I'm not I took issue with the tone and the accusation that this woman who was dying anyway was killed by the INS. The case was handled wrongly but it was not fucking murder.

The case is illegal immigrant overstays, gets ill, INS fuck up she dies.

A fuck up by INS without a doubt but not a case that deserves the emotive word 'killed'.

Words have power it helps to use the right ones.
 
No I'm not I took issue with the tone and the accusation that this woman who was dying anyway was killed by the INS. The case was handled wrongly but it was not fucking murder.

it was culpabale manslaughter or corperate manslaughter

The case is illegal immigrant overstays, gets ill, INS fuck up she dies.

how can she over stay if she wasn't supposed to be here you need to get you terminology right here. she was a perfectly legal imigrant whose vias ran out or was she an illegal imigrant who never had a visa. Work out which version of this story you want to flap about and then stick to it.

either way her overstaying was because she fell terminally ill.

not you run of the mill exploitation sob story really is it.
A fuck up by INS without a doubt but not a case that deserves the emotive word 'killed'.

Words have power it helps to use the right ones.

ok killed might be strong if you are trying tomake capital with semantic wranglings, allowed to die by in action, would that be better if not a archic and clumsey fashion to say it... either way if it's ok for people with your brand of nationalist rhetoric to bang on about illegals a far more offensive terminology i don't really think you are in a position to start making such bold claims about the use of words...
 
That the more 'internationalist' and 'exotic' causes seem to be immediately taken up by activists as opposed to the sort of problems I mentioned earlier. Its the profile that the more internationalist causes get as opposed to the more down to earth ones that is out of proportion.

Not a stupid accusation. You get people going into paroxysims of anger over stuff like this but they seem to be much more mealy mouthed or worse silent over issues where people are being cheated out of the services that they have contributed towards for years andyears.


The phrase impoverish by dogma was describing and aimed at those who have a naive belief in open borders and a corresponding distaste of those who have actually contributed to this nation.

If it was the choice between providing a service for a pensioner who has provided for their family and their country providing a service for an illegal immigrant the default position should be to provide for the individual who has actually put in the bloody pot.

You have no idea. It's the only 'exotic' cause I can recall down here so far this year, there are plenty of down-to-earth causes that myself & friends of mine have campaigned on however and got headlines for such as post office closures, housing, disabled workers etc.

I think your posts on this thread are shocking.
 
You have no idea. It's the only 'exotic' cause I can recall down here so far this year, there are plenty of down-to-earth causes that myself & friends of mine have campaigned on however and got headlines for such as post office closures, housing, disabled workers etc.
I wasnt' specifically having a go at your actions just the general level of publicity and action seems to be much more when its an internationalist cause than a home or nonsexy one.
I think your posts on this thread are shocking.

Why

I haven't said she should have been deported
I took issue with the language used
The most controversial thing I've said is that we should prioritise those who've paid in. I call that being fair.
I've said the INS fucked up.
 
Why

I haven't said she should have been deported
I took issue with the language used
The most controversial thing I've said is that we should prioritise those who've paid in. I call that being fair.
I've said the INS fucked up.
what you seem to be missing int his pull the ladder up ranting is that actually the system isn't set up on a priority basis based on who's paid in what other wise we'd have a system which was actually bankrupt.

It's to those who need it not on some arbitary scheme. based on where you parents fucked and you happened to pop out...
 
actualy KBJ can you not see why the reasons you think she shouldn't have been deported might have mitigated her beign sent back may actually apply to others as well...
 
actualy KBJ can you not see why the reasons you think she shouldn't have been deported might have mitigated her beign sent back may actually apply to others as well...

Its awful, the whole sitiuation.
however ( and yeah call me heartless if you wish) I hope the money goes to help others in exactly her situation who need assistance and not in its entirety to her children.

Thats not why it was donated and I hope despite her awful, very sad passing someone elses life can be saved/prolonged as a lasting protest to the injustice. That £70K could be doing alot more good if its not donated in its entirety to her children.
 
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