911 - please don't flame me

[editor]

Why don't you just come out and say it editor: All free discussion and debate on the subject of 9/11 will be ruthlessly suppressed among the urban 'community' by order of the supreme ruler..

Yes! I'm the Supreme Ruler and I've got big hat to go with it too!

You'd love it. It's got gold braiding and a real cute peak at the front. Sexy!

Now where was I? Oh yes - thanks for your suggestion about binning the thread - I'll act on that shortly.

Now don't be shy if you need help with your new 'conspiracy-busting' site - I'm here to help! I'll even wear my cap for you if you like.

Now, I'm sure you and DrJ will have lots and lots of evidence-free 'found on the internet'' stories to post up in ever decreasing circles, so perhaps you'd better get your big Cut'n'Paste machine ready to roll again.

It's had quite a lot if usage on urban75 over the years (and that's an understatement!), but I'm sure it'll be good for another few volumes of dodgy claims, source-free conjecture and the usual dubious, unscientific 'intrepretations' of eye witness evidence.

Well, I won't keep you any longer. Someone with your massive commitment and unswerving belief that know 'the truth' must be chomping at the bit to share your amazing insights with the world.

I mean, if I was so sure that I was right and the entire world had been fooled by an evil conspiracy, I'd be working day and night to produce the Numero Uno resource for others to discover the truth.

Have fun, y'hear. And don't be stranger!

 

[WouldBe]

Black boxes are designed to be all but indestructible. If anything was to survive it's the black box. They are made of alloys (not just aluminium, and maybe titanium instead) designed to withstand extraordinary conditions.

WRONG. They are made of aluminium with a central core of thin steel and an insulation of silica.

Aluminium melts at aprox 800C
Silica is used in glass making and melts at approx 1100C
Steel melts at approx 1500C

Melted steel was found at the WTC so the temp had to be at least 1500C so why would the black box survive? Source

They can take impacts of 3,400g and they test them by firing them from cannons!

Not quite sure how they work that out as being 3,400g but the other tests are interesting

Pin drop - To test the unit's penetration resistance, researchers drop a 500-pound (227-kg) weight with a 0.25-inch steel pin protruding from the bottom onto the CSMU from a height of 10 feet (3 m). This pin, with 500-pounds behind it, impacts the CSMU cylinder's most vulnerable axis.

Static crush - For five minutes, researchers apply 5,000 pounds per square-inch (psi) of crush force to each of the unit's six major axis points.

Fire test - Researchers place the unit into a propane-source fireball, cooking it using three burners. The unit sits inside the fire at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit (1,100 C) for one hour. The FAA requires that all solid-state recorders be able to survive at least one hour at this temperature.

Source That info is provided by a black box manufacturer.

So a black box is only designed to withstand 5000psi for 5 mins rather than 1,000,000tons of steel and concrete falling on it.

And it is only designed to withstand 1100C for an hour yet evidence of molten steel was seen.


Little wonder the black boxes didn't survive then.

It doesn't take long or a high degree of intelligence to check these facts out. So why do the fantasists have so much trouble performing these simple tasks?

 

[editor]

WRONG.
Little wonder the black boxes didn't survive then.

It doesn't take long or a high degree of intelligence to check these facts out. So why do the fantasists have so much trouble performing these simple tasks?

Indeed.

And that's why there's no point in entertaining the same load of ill-researched cobblers regurgitated on an endless cycle here.

 

[bigfish]

WRONG. They are made of aluminium with a central core of thin steel and an insulation of silica.

Aluminium melts at aprox 800C
Silica is used in glass making and melts at approx 1100C
Steel melts at approx 1500C

Melted steel was found at the WTC so the temp had to be at least 1500C so why would the black box survive?

So a black box is only designed to withstand 5000psi for 5 mins rather than 1,000,000 tons of steel and concrete falling on it.

So, let me see if I've got this right. Through nothing more than the power of imagination you conclude that all 4 black boxes must have either melted in tremendous heat or else were smashed to unrecognizable smithereens beneath a 1,000,000 tons, of rubble, and yet the bound hands of a stewardess and Mohammed Atta's passport managed by some miracle to evade this same fate and survive intact! Incredible stuff! Another outstanding piece of makey uppie science from the master of makey uppie science himself. I don't suppose for a moment the thought ever crossed your mind that a far more rational explanation is that the passport and the bound hands story were both planted did it? I mean, the NYT have a proven track record of assisting the US government with planted stories as evinced by the recent case of Judith 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' Miller, who got caught red handed fabricating and planting such stories and who is obviously a spook who the NYT must know is a spook.

Incidentally, didn't the planes crash into the 78th floor of the north tower and between the 78th and 84th of the south? But that would mean all the weight of the building beneath these impact points couldn't possibly have fallen on top of the black boxes, not unless all 4 of them somehow managed to fall down the lift shafts into the basement before the buildings came down, which of course is nonsense. Therefore more than than 70% of the entire weight of each building can reasonably be subtracted from the total weight you imagine fell on top of the boxes. This same material would also have come between the black boxes and the molton pools of steel gathered in the basement.

It doesn't take long or a high degree of intelligence to check these facts out. So why do the fantasists have so much trouble performing these simple tasks?

Your right, but as we can see the degree of intelligence routinely employed by you when it comes to checking out facts somehow never seems to be enough.

Seriously WouldBe, why do you bother?

 

[bigfish]

Now where was I? Oh yes - thanks for your suggestion about binning the thread - I'll act on that shortly.

Of course, no one expects you to do anything but bin the thread. Being an accredited journalist and a published author an all I would imagine you'd want to get rid of as much evidence of you making it up as you go along as you can really. Your routine binning of 9/11 threads reminds me of how Stalin used to airbrush his opponents and his numerous errors out of the historical record to make it look as though he was right all along.

Someone with your massive commitment and unswerving belief that know 'the truth' must be chomping at the bit to share your amazing insights with the world.

I'll tell you what, my "massive commitment" rapidly pales in to insignificance in comparison to the Stakhanovite efforts you put in on just these 9/11 threads alone!

I mean, if I was so sure that I was right and the entire world had been fooled by an evil conspiracy, I'd be working day and night to produce the Numero Uno resource for others to discover the truth.

Yeah, sure.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Internet = History
Urban75 = Soviet Union
Editor = Stalin
bigtit = All those fighting against injustice and oppression

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[editor]

our routine binning of 9/11 threads reminds me of how Stalin used to airbrush his opponents and his numerous errors out of the historical record to make it look as though he was right all along.

Why don't you quit your endless whining and bleating, get off your lazy fat arse and create your own site that can't be 'airbrushed' out of history?

I mean, if you're so sure that you hold the key to the greatest conspiracy ever known, why are you relying on a non profit site run by a 'Stalinist editor' to publicise the story?

If I was so sure I was right and had all the answers, I'd be working night and day to make sure the world knew about it.

I'd create an impeccably sourced, well-researched site with expert analysis supported by hard evidence.

I'd be contacting every major news media outlet with my story, I'd be out on the streets leafletting to drive up traffic, I'd be hassling journalists, ringing up radio shows and trying to get airtime on TV (and that's exactly what I did when I started the football/CJA campaign).

What I wouldn't be doing is repeating the same evidence-untroubled tosh ad infinitum on a site where I have virtually zero support and credibility.

So why are reliant on urban75, bigfish? Why are you incapable of putting your beliefs in action? If posting your ill-informed fantasies to an ever diminshing audience is the best you can do, perhaps you might reflect on why so few people have any interest in your reveleations...

 

[freethepeeps]

Maybe Bigfish has seen how editor behaves when his suggestion to start a new site is taken up.

 

[editor]

Maybe Bigfish has seen how editor behaves when his suggestion to start a new site is taken up.

Maybe he could take tips from you on how to run a successful, welcoming, inclusive bulletin board?

Oops, I forgot! You managed to single handedly destroy all the hard work of others on dissensus with your raging ego, endless bullying and bizzare Dubversion impressions!

But thanks for your fascinating 'contribution' to this thread. Really worthwhile stuff.

 

[freethepeeps]

Maybe he could take tips from you on how to run a successful, welcoming, inclusive bulletin board?

Oops, I forgot! You managed to single handedly destroy all the hard work of others on dissensus with your raging ego, endless bullying and bizzare Dubversion impressions!

But thanks for your fascinating 'contribution' to this thread. Really worthwhile stuff.

Blah Blah Blah - what "hard work" are you talking about?

As for the rest, its just the same distortions that you've been splattering over other threads.

*yawn*

 

[fela fan]

I thought urban, in particular the political forums, was a website in which folk could come together and debate with each other.

I didn't know that if those same folk hold the wrong kind of opinions they'd be asked to go away and start another urban-type website. I didn't know that urban stated if one should hold the wrong sort of opinion they'd be made to feel so unwelcome by their host.

I grant you, the host still allows those opinions to be stated, but it can get somewhat hostile sometimes if one holds the wrong sorts of opinions.

Now editor, what about remembering the magnificent, independent, advertising-free, alternative media outlet you provided to the world? Surely such a beast is supposed to welcome alternative, independent kind of thinking without the owner of said thinking being asked to leave the stage?

If the thinking is 'out there', way off target, laughably wrong, then by proper debate this can be shown to the forum.

 

[fela fan]

Internet = History
Urban75 = Soviet Union
Editor = Stalin
bigtit = All those fighting against injustice and oppression

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

You're laughing, nay, cackling at your own joke. In the field of comedy, normally this means the joke is poor.

You seem to be adept at changing the proposition of people's postings to suit your own perceptions.

You should be more careful at summing up posters' opinions. If you want to do it correctly that is.

 

[editor]

Blah Blah Blah - what "hard work" are you talking about?

Interesting to note that your sole contribution to this thread is to stir up shit and nothing else.

What a sad, bitter chap you are.

 

[WouldBe]

So, let me see if I've got this right. Through nothing more than the power of imagination you conclude that all 4 black boxes must have either melted in tremendous heat or else were smashed to unrecognizable smithereens beneath a 1,000,000 tons, of rubble, and yet the bound hands of a stewardess and Mohammed Atta's passport managed by some miracle to evade this same fate and survive intact!

At least I've got an imagination and don't need to be spoon fed crap by some bonkers fantasist site.

Wasn't the passport found a block away from the WTC? In other words it was thrown clear from the building and didn't have to survive the tremendous heat and tons of rubble I've not read up on the stewardesses hands so can't comment.

Incidentally, didn't the planes crash into the 78th floor of the north tower and between the 78th and 84th of the south?

Right so the north tower was hit below the south tower. What's the matter are you blind as well as stupid?

The north tower was hit between the 93 - 98 floors while the south tower was hit between the 78 - 84 floors. If you can't even get this right when there are loads of pictures on the net, to save you the trouble of having to read, then what hope have you got of understanding anything more complex.

But that would mean all the weight of the building beneath these impact points couldn't possibly have fallen on top of the black boxes

10 floors from the north tower still works out at around 100,000 tons which is considerably more than black boxes are designed to withstand.

not unless all 4 of them somehow managed to fall down the lift shafts into the basement before the buildings came down, which of course is nonsense

As the plane that hit the north tower hit centrally and the core, containing the stairs and lift shafts is central to the building, then 2 of them could very easily have fallen down the lift shafts.

 

[editor]

I thought urban, in particular the political forums, was a website in which folk could come together and debate with each other.

Indeed it is. But it's not 'conspiracy fans'r'us' neither was it set up to be, and I'm fed up seeing the same drivel going around in ever decreasing circles.

But if you think that the evidence-untroubled 9/11 'theories' are so vitally important and relevant, why don't you team up with bigfish and DrJ and set up your own forum?

I'd be happy to help and I'd have no problem in diverting any discussion here to your forum. I think that's fair enough, don't you?

Let's be honest, it's only the same 4 or 5 faces that actually bother believing in the 9/11 theories any more, so why not set up your own forum together?

That way, dull, dreary, repetitious threads won't get binned, I won't get compared to Stalin by lazy, ignorant twats and you you won't have to complain about dodgy internet-sourced theories being challenged at every turn.

Heck, you can even give a home to FTP's off topic snidey comments too!

 

[fela fan]

Wasn't the passport found a block away from the WTC? In other words it was thrown clear from the building and didn't have to survive the tremendous heat and tons of rubble I've not read up on the stewardesses hands so can't comment.

So, in which direction did the passport fly out of the plane upon the plane impacting with the tower?

Did it go backwards a block? No, can't see how that is physically possible with its momentum going forwards at a few hundred mph.

Did it go forwards a block? That would mean going through the fireball, through the whole width of the tower. No can't see that being physically possible either.

So it must have gone flying sideways out of the plane a block. Physically possible i guess, but that would be stretching anyone's imagination beyond any feasible elasticity said imagination could have.

Which way did it fly out of the plane wouldbe?

 

[fela fan]

Indeed it is. But it's not 'conspiracy fans'r'us' neither was it set up to be, and I'm fed up seeing the same drivel going around in ever decreasing circles.

But at the end of the day, isn't life just a 'conspiracy theory'? I mean if any of us didn't experience something ourselves, then to a degree we depend on someone else's words.

Unless these 911 threads are causing damage to the reputation of urban, then i would think you could safely no longer be fed up with them by not coming to these specific threads. I mean, at any one time, there's only one or two of them going on.

I just cannot fathom in my head why you hate these threads so much, yet continue to post on them voraciously. Why not just not come to them?

 

[WouldBe]

So, in which direction did the passport fly out of the plane upon the plane impacting with the tower?

Did it go forwards a block? That would mean going through the fireball, through the whole width of the tower. No can't see that being physically possible either.

No idea which way it went. My knowledge of NYC is very limited.

If Atta was the pilot then I would assume the passport was in the cockpit with him. The cockpit is approx 50ft infront of the fuel tanks so the passport would always be ahead of the fireball

 

[freethepeeps]

Interesting to note that your sole contribution to this thread is to stir up shit and nothing else.

What a sad, bitter chap you are.

Well, lets see, this is my third post on the thread.

Heres how it went:

#42

Perhaps sparticus can host this fascinating uber-thread on his own server space so he can repeat LIHOP all day long without fear of criticism.

In fcta, why don't the conspiracy fans get their own bulletin board together?

#108

If you want to continue such dull, deary playground battles, I suggest you return to dissensus where the site made it into something of an art form.

#173

But if you're so very keen to keep repeating the same old tosh, why not join DrJ's forum where there'll be no beastly editor spoiling your 9/11 mantra chanting?

Or, even better, why not prove your commitment to 'the truth' by getting off your arse and starting your own site?

I mean, if you're so God-damn sure that you're right, why bother posting here? It's not like your exciting theories have actually managed to attract a huge audience here, is it?

#177

I'll look forward to seeing your belief and passion in the 'rightness' of your cause being translated into your own website soon. There's a brand new 'tech section' on the site with loads of tips to help get you started.

Good luck and be sure to drop me a line if you get stuck with the coding.

#179

Hey - you could give him some tips on his website too!

In fact, with all your webmaster experience, why don't you guys work on it together?!

Great idea, no?

#181

Now don't be shy if you need help with your new 'conspiracy-busting' site - I'm here to help! I'll even wear my cap for you if you like.

#187

Why don't you quit your endless whining and bleating, get off your lazy fat arse and create your own site that can't be 'airbrushed' out of history?

So that'd be 7 suggestions that people go and start another site - whilst suggesting this, you have, at the same time been presenting your half-baked distorted version of what happened when some of us did "get up of our arses" and start a site, which you promptly published the URL of, which had been sent to you as a courtesy.

In light of that - my first post (#188) referred directly to your 7 suggestions

Maybe Bigfish has seen how editor behaves when his suggestion to start a new site is taken up.

and got this response #189

Maybe he could take tips from you on how to run a successful, welcoming, inclusive bulletin board?

Oops, I forgot! You managed to single handedly destroy all the hard work of others on dissensus with your raging ego, endless bullying and bizzare Dubversion impressions!

But thanks for your fascinating 'contribution' to this thread. Really worthwhile stuff.

leading to #190

Blah Blah Blah - what "hard work" are you talking about?

As for the rest, its just the same distortions that you've been splattering over other threads.

*yawn*

As one of the founders of dissensus, I can say with absolute certainty that it arose out exactly the same kind of suggestions on 911 threads - and it seems that months later, nothing has changed.

So, if I'm shit stirring, what are your 7 comments about?

 

[editor]

I just cannot fathom in my head why you hate these threads so much, yet continue to post on them voraciously.

I can't fathom why you keep posting the same repetitive drivel on these threads and then complain when they get deleted.

If you're that interested in the subject, why not start your own site where your pearls of wisdom will never get deleted?

 

[freethepeeps]

I can't fathom why you keep posting the same repetitive drivel on these threads and then complain when they get deleted.

If you're that interested in the subject, why not start your own site where your pearls of wisdom will never get deleted?

And this would be number 8

"repetitive drivel" indeed!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Maybe he could take tips from you on how to run a successful, welcoming, inclusive bulletin board?

Oops, I forgot! You managed to single handedly destroy all the hard work of others on dissensus with your raging ego, endless bullying and bizzare Dubversion impressions!

But thanks for your fascinating 'contribution' to this thread. Really worthwhile stuff.

i would hardley say it was single handedly tbh i would say there were more than one main culpret really, oddley enough all of them seem in some way connected to the above quoted post...

bizarre that eh?



back to your sand pit, boys....

 

[editor]

Well, lets see, this is my third post on the thread.

Seeing as you've already publicly stated that you have "no respect for me", I really couldn't give a fuck what you think anymore.

But I do hope your incessant whining stops soon.

 

[freethepeeps]

Seeing as you've already publicly stated that you have "no respect for me", I really couldn't give a fuck what you think anymore.

But I do hope your incessant whining stops soon.

Perhaps you should stop your inaccurate reporting odf the dissensus story, your attacks on my posts and your endless suggestions that people start their own boards.

Then I'll have nothing to "whine" about.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Perhaps you should stop your inaccurate reporting of the dissensus story

i for one wouldn't mind if that were to happen certianly being brow beaten continually with the conspirisytastic version of events gets on my tits

 

[fela fan]

No idea which way it went. My knowledge of NYC is very limited.

If Atta was the pilot then I would assume the passport was in the cockpit with him. The cockpit is approx 50ft infront of the fuel tanks so the passport would always be ahead of the fireball

Stop sidetracking my point. You're being blatantly disingeneous there. Who needs the slightest bit of knowledge of NYC?

Which way do you think the passport went wouldbe? Can forwards momentum of such speed have something deflect the passport into shooting off sideways or backwards?

If not, how did it travel through the entire width of the building?

 

[fela fan]

If you're that interested in the subject, why not start your own site where your pearls of wisdom will never get deleted?

Why do you only ask that question of 911 topics?

One of many reasons why i don't is that i have no technical knowledge of where to even begin.

And when have i complained about you binning these threads?

I don't have 'pearls of wisdom'. I have questions that are raised due to my doubts over the USG version of events.

 

[WouldBe]

Stop sidetracking my point. You're being blatantly disingeneous there. Who needs the slightest bit of knowledge of NYC?

Which way do you think the passport went wouldbe? Can forwards momentum of such speed have something deflect the passport into shooting off sideways or backwards?

If not, how did it travel through the entire width of the building?

Just like other objects travelled through the width of the building. There were big holes in both sides of the north tower.

Take a look at the photo's of the plane hitting the south tower. A fireball came out the opposite wall and the side wall. It is unlikely the fuel caused this on it's own, so some solid object must have gone through. In the case of the south tower one of the engines goes through the opposite wall.

Why is it so hard to see how an object moving at several hundred miles an hour can cross a floor space of only 206ft??????

 

[fela fan]

Just like other objects travelled through the width of the building. There were big holes in both sides of the north tower.

Take a look at the photo's of the plane hitting the south tower. A fireball came out the opposite wall and the side wall. It is unlikely the fuel caused this on it's own, so some solid object must have gone through. In the case of the south tower one of the engines goes through the opposite wall.

Why is it so hard to see how an object moving at several hundred miles an hour can cross a floor space of only 206ft??????

What other objects? A pair of bound hands?

Why is it so hard? Dunno mate, i'm not you, i don't have your brain. But as for my brain, i find it very hard to visualise this passport escaping out of the cockpit and going 206 feet through loads of steel and concrete and a huge fireball, and then upon exiting still flying another block, never mind remaining unsinged. How far is a block in NYC? For such a light object, yes i find it impossible to see.

This scerario you ask me to consider makes any other so-called conspiracy theories postulated on these 911 threads seem positively factual.

Go on, tell me, you think passports can do such feats?

Now that's what i call conspiracy lunacy.

 

[editor]

Perhaps you should stop your inaccurate reporting odf the dissensus story, your attacks on my posts and your endless suggestions that people start their own boards.

Which bit was inaccurate?

Are you saying that you didn't bully posters, ban people on a personal whim, alienate just about everyone involved and then indulge in a bizarre Dubversion impression?